Ron Paul Wins Debate but Republicans Won't Gamble on Him

casinogamblingweb.com ^ | Sept 6, 2007 | casinogamblingweb.com

[jmeagan]

*****Remember how mad Weyrich used to get over Lott? But he was all too soon proven right about him. I wish that station hadn’t gotten busted up into a NEOCON and DEM lovefest. When America’s Voice took over after Weyrich was forced out I couldn’t stomach it. If I wanted to see Ellen Ratner, Bob Beckel, or Larry Flynt, I could have changed channels. I do miss The Next Revolution even though sometimes they were over my head. Lind and Kenna were brilliant. So was John Lofton’s show “It’s only politics”. I think I have a VHS somewhere of him interviewing James Carville. One of the most hilarious events I’ve ever seen on TV :>}

It looks like Lind’s predictions about Cultural Warfare are fixing to come true. We’re fixing to be in for a very rough ride indeed.******

I wasn’t around for the end. It was strictly a satellite station and my dish went bad. You can still get Weyrich’s commentary on Newsmax.com.

I was upset that he didn’t give Ron Paul his complete support. Same thing with Charley Reese, he said Ron Paul was the only decent candidate in the race, but didn’t encourage his readers to vote for RP.

[cva66snipe]

I wasn’t around for the end. It was strictly a satellite station and my dish went bad. You can still get Weyrich’s commentary on Newsmax.com. I was upset that he didn’t give Ron Paul his complete support. Same thing with Charley Reese, he said Ron Paul was the only decent candidate in the race, but didn’t encourage his readers to vote for RP.

I can only think of one possibility why Weyrich may be withholding an endorsement. It would have a lot to do with seeing what an old friends party comes up with.

[George W. Bush]

We need to back off and our leaders shut up. POTUS needs to approach congress in closed session and have a bounty placed on his head and hire locals or Soldiers of Fortune who can blend in accordingly. Billions will be saved and results are far more likely.

We've offered the $25 million bounty for at least three years. Bush got Congress to increase it to $50 million this year. No takers. I assume it's just their little Arabist/tribesman way of expressing their love and admiration for Americans and Westerners in general.

And Letters of Marque and Reprisal were intended by Ron Paul to use Blackwater and private mercenary forces to hunt down Osama and capture him. Ron Paul couldn't get it passed.

[cva66snipe]

We've offered the $25 million bounty for at least three years. Bush got Congress to increase it to $50 million this year. No takers. I assume it's just their little Arabist/tribesman way of expressing their love and admiration for Americans and Westerners in general. And Letters of Marque and Reprisal were intended by Ron Paul to use Blackwater and private mercenary forces to hunt down Osama and capture him. Ron Paul couldn't get it passed.

At this point we could have offered $500M and still came out ahead. It's likely gonna take mercenaries to do it. If they can find ones in that region it will get done quicker. First thing we got to do is make certain which country he's actually in. I would not even rule out China as a possibility at this point. It would be to their advantage to continue to wear down our troops looking for him.

[higgmeister]

I think I've yet to hear of any communist supporting Ron Paul. They're pretty decimated and pathetic from what little I've seen. No doubt we do have some Democrats, my wild guess is 10% to 15%, not so terrible unless you thought Reagan should have rejected his Reagan Democrats to get a landslide. We have probably a majority of Republicans, the rest are a mix of Libertarians and a whole bunch of college kids and young people in their twenties who aren't very partisan or political about any party yet but who realize the welfare state is about to fall on their heads with the Boomer retirement. IMHO. You can learn a lot by looking at Facebook or MySpace or the MeetUps. Of course, we do have quite an assortment of single-issue voters. Like these online gambling people.

There is actually no need to guess. In 1999 I attended a seminar given by David Bergland, the Libertarian Party National Chair at that time and 1984 LP Presidential candidate (the cycle before Ron Paul), along with Jim Lark, his LP Chair successor and Jarret Wollstein, International LP Society founder.

David Bergland had used David Keirsey's Personality and Temperament Sorter to study the mindset and motivation of libertarians. Dr. Keirsey is the author of "Please Understand Me" and "Please Understand Me II" that describes and explains his self-assessment personality questionnaire.

Mr. Bergland handed out temperament card decks to each person in the room and asked us to study the descriptions in order to pick the description that we most closely identified with. He then had us all hold up our cards and 95 out of a hundred of us were NT "Rational". The other three basic character traits are NF "Idealist", SJ "Guardian" and SP "Artisan."

David Bergland then told us that we were rather a unique group in that only five to seven percent of the total population are NT Rational. We were all quite pleased with ourselves for our unique insight and keen profundity until Jarret Wollstein revealed that eighty percent of NT Rationals are Socialists. The rest of course are vehemently anti-socialist.

So you see the mindset that accepts all planks and tenets of the LP, as Ron Paul still does, are approximately one percent of the population according to arguably the highest living authority, David Bergland. That is why there has never been a Libertarian elected to any of the approximately 640 higher offices in our Grand Republic.

[higgmeister]

Up until the 1960s (and please don't try and bring up the Barbary pirates) the only nation in the middle east that had done us harm was Israel (see the USS Liberty) and, yet, our government spends BILLIONS of OUR dollars a year supporting them.

Your logic is flawed. Up until the early part of the last century the Ottoman Empire kept a tight control on the interaction between Western culture and Islam. If you had read my link above, you would see that we did have problems with Islam much later than the Barbary pirates.

1858-59 -- Turkey. The Secretary of State requested a display of naval force along the Levant after a massacre of Americans at Jaffa and mistreatment elsewhere "to remind the authorities (of Turkey) of the power of the United States."

1882 -- Egypt. - July 14 to 18. American forces landed to protect American interests during warfare between British and Egyptians and looting of the city of Alexandria by Arabs.

The British did have some problems with Islam as our predessor in western global influence.

1903 -- Syria. - September 7 to 12. US forces protected the American consulate in Beirut when a local Moslem uprising was feared.

1903-04 -- Abyssinia. Twenty-five marines were sent to Abyssinia to protect the US Consul General while he negotiated a treaty.

1904 -- Tangier, Morocco. "We want either Perdicaris alive or Raisula dead." A squadron demonstrated to force release of a kidnapped American. Marines were landed to protect the consul general.

1912 -- Turkey. - November 18 to December 3. US forces guarded the American legation at Constantinople during a Balkan War.

1922 -- Turkey. - September and October. A landing force was sent ashore with consent of both Greek and Turkish authorities, to protect American lives and property when the Turkish Nationalists entered Smyrna.

1948 -- Palestine. A marine consular guard was sent to Jerusalem to protect the US Consul General.

1976 -- Lebanon. On July 22 and 23, 1974, helicopters from five US naval vessels evacuated approximately 250 Americans and Europeans from Lebanon during fighting between Lebanese factions after an overland convoy evacuation had been blocked by hostilities.

1974, September 8: TWA Flight 841: Bomb kills 88 on jetliner. Attributed to Abu Nidal and his terror organization.

1977, March 9: Three buildings in Washington, DC are seized by members of the militant African-American Muslim Hanafi sect and over 100 hostages taken. One bystander is shot and killed, and Washington city councilman Marion Barry is shot in the chest. After a two-day standoff all hostages are released from the District Building (city hall), B'nai B'rith headquarters, and the Islamic Center.

1980 -- Iran. On April 26, 1980, President Carter reported the use of six US transport planes and eight helicopters in an unsuccessful attempt to rescue American hostages being held in Iran.

In 1985 Abu Abbas lead a team of PLO terrorists that hijacked the Achille Lauro cruise liner and murdered an American, Leon Klinghoffer. He was confined to a wheelchair was shot dead and his body was thrown overboard.

1990, November 5: Assassination of Meir Kahane head of Israel's Koch party and founder of the American vigilante group the Jewish Defense League in a Manhattan, New York hotel lobby by early elements of Al Queda.

1993, January 25: Mir Aimal Kansi, a Pakistani, fires an AK-47 assault rifle into cars waiting at a stoplight in front of the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters, killing two and injuring three others, see FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives.

1993, February 26: World Trade Center bombing kills six and injures over 1000 people, by coalition of five groups: Jamaat Al-Fuqra'/Gamaat Islamiya/Hamas/Islamic Jihad/National Islamic Front,[84] see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists, FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives, Ramzi Yousef.

It is only in the past thirty to fifty years that the advent of Modern modes of communication such as international TV channels, international print media and the global Internet along with modern modes of travel in the "Jet Age", have allowed Islam to become aware of our, so called, "decadent Western Society", and gained the means to travel here to witness it.

Think about this for a moment...when was the last time some 'islamofascist' blew something up in Switzerland?

1970, February 21: A bomb explodes in the rear of Swissair Flight 330, causing it to crash near Zürich, Switzerland, killing 38 passengers and all nine crew members. The attack was carried out by Palestinian terror group PFLP

[KentuckyWoman]

You’re still refusing to get it. Yes, we had problems IN the middle-east because, guess what....we were THERE. Nothing happened on OUR shores until AFTER we got stupid with regards Iran and then started building bases THERE. I was omitting the Barbary Pirates simply because, once again, we were THERE even though, at the time, we understood that we could wage war to protect Americans abroad. Most of the world used to look up to and admire the U.S. Now, thanks to the last few decades of idiotic foreign policy practiced through force, we are being more predominantly seen as the world’s bully and the American people are finally beginning to realize that just maybe our elected ‘leaders’ have been steering us in the wrong direction and for all the wrong reasons.

[George W. Bush]

There is actually no need to guess. In 1999 I attended a seminar given by David Bergland, the Libertarian Party National Chair at that time and 1984 LP Presidential candidate (the cycle before Ron Paul), along with Jim Lark, his LP Chair successor and Jarret Wollstein, International LP Society founder.

Interesting report. I do notice that we see more of this personality analyses coming out of the third parties, trying to figure out why they can't recruit more people. Maybe that's rational but I think they'd do better to focus on a single message and to expelling pretty strictly those who have repulsive baggage (antisemitism or theocratic tendencies). They also need far more attractive and media-savvy candidates who can articulate the party's message.

I do find it strange that I get criticized here so often by different folks accusing me of being a Libertarian. Yet, I don't think I've ever even met one, let alone attended a meeting. I find the few little shows I've seen on CSPAN covering their convention to be pretty weird. The other night, someone was complaining that I sounded like people on that DemocracyNow show/website. I'd never even seen it and had to go find it on my sat dish. Same with Alex Jones where we get accused of being Jonesheads. I've never heard more than a few minutes of clips posted here and it turns out some of the accusers actually listen to him all the time. Weird.

Maybe I don't get out much but I just hang around here at FR, only going elsewhere when people post links to sites or quote them and I don't sign up with them or join them. I don't even belong to ronpaulforums.com and probably haven't read more than 50 threads there and that was only because of a few links posted here by Paul-haters. So it's odd when some of us constantly get accused of hanging out with all these other groups or sites and such and then it turns out that it is actually the accusers who hang out there or who has attended their meetings and such.

I'm not taking you to task personally or anything. I mean, we do (or should) believe in free association and liberty if we support Dr. Paul. It's just kind of ironic to constantly get accused of something which the accusers themselves actually have done or have a history of doing themselves.

[takenoprisoner]

Inspite or your denaial, I refuse to ridicule you SD. You have a son serving. When my dad served, my grandfather had a son serving. When I served, my dad had a son serving. It’s an honor and a duty among some of us to serve this nation.

Your son is making the sacrifce that my dad in WW2 made and during VN I made. We have in common more than you accept. I am not our enemy. I am your fellow American. I am a long standing member of FR in good standing.

Surely my dedication to the Constitution cannot offend you?

[takenoprisoner]

see FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives.

I did that to discover OBL was not wanted for 911. What's up with the FBI? Was OBL not responsible for 911 like the President charged? Does the FBI disagree with the President and the rest of us? Why does the FBI disagree with the President and the rest of us when it comes to OBL?

[takenoprisoner]

I hope you feel better. Your rant speakes volumes regarding your socialitst view dreaming for the death of our Constituton.

“”We aren’t buying it.”

Freedom is not for sale.

[Zman516]

My “socialist view dreaming for the death of our Constitution” (??)

You’re delusional.

[Scarchin]

Sh*t source.

Get real.

[higgmeister]

I do notice that we see more of this personality analyses coming out of the third parties, trying to figure out why they can't recruit more people. Maybe that's rational but I think they'd do better to focus on a single message and to expelling pretty strictly those who have repulsive baggage (antisemitism or theocratic tendencies). They also need far more attractive and media-savvy candidates who can articulate the party's message.

There is a central message with the Libertarian Party, and also with Ron Paul's campaign.

They call it "non-initiation of force."

Another way to say it is, no one should be an aggressor. Arms should only be taken up in self defense.

They feel that our actions in Iraq and with the WOT violates that tenant.

I agree with the tenant of non initiation of force. I feel that our seemingly aggressive actions have been predicated on the initial use of force by Saddam and his violation of the previous UN agreements, the terrorism of radical Moslem groups, and in a broader sense by the barbaric Islamic aggression and conquests since the their so called Prophet held his first scimitar and lopped off the first Jewish or Christian head.

[George W. Bush]

There is a central message with the Libertarian Party, and also with Ron Paul's campaign. They call it "non-initiation of force." Another way to say it is, no one should be an aggressor. Arms should only be taken up in self defense.

It seems that there are a few Libertarians that are breaking with the classic Libertarian peace policy. Is this a sign of a different kind of Libertarian party emerging? Probably not in the current election cycle by maybe in 2012...who knows?

I agree with the tenet of non initiation of force. I feel that our seemingly aggressive actions have been predicated on the initial use of force by Saddam and his violation of the previous UN agreements, the terrorism of radical Moslem groups, and in a broader sense by the barbaric Islamic aggression and conquests since the their so called Prophet held his first scimitar and lopped off the first Jewish or Christian head.

In general, I also agree with non-initiation and being focused on defense, not nation-building or regime-changing by force. That said, I think a president will always reserve the right to initiate force. As with 9/11, no president can see what is coming and there could be surprises that can require an abrupt and completely unilateral attack ordered by C-in-C without consulting Congress. Ron Paul has spoken to this traditional authority of a commander in chief. He does think Congress should be consulted if at all possible and a declaration of war sought. This does give the president and the FBI and intel agencies and Pentagon more authority. See basically every law ever written that includes the phrase "in time of war".

At any rate, thanks for the points you raised. I'm not sure I even expect any majority at FR or even within the Republican party to embrace that policy position or RP as a candidate but to pretend that it is untenable or beyond discussion is a little odd, even for the Paul-haters here at FR.