Posted on 08/17/2007 12:15:16 PM PDT by ZGuy
This makes me mad and not just because my family has Mennonite background. Heaven knows they’d be welcome in other areas if they decided to relocate.
About evolution ... in our local public school lots of my kids’ teachers are members of our denomination. DD’s 3rd grade teacher told her before bringing up evolution that the state says she has to give this information, but she personally doesn’t agree with it.
There is a major difference between gravity and origins, namely that we can drop an object with mass 100 times and each and every time it falls to the ground. We can observe it, we can repeat it and the results can be verified by other observers. No one can observe origins, they can not be repeated nor can they be verified. In the case of evolutionary theories each and every part of the theory lacks even a credible demonstration that it could occur. Of course it is logically impossible to prove a negative and so no theory of origins can be proven false and because of the lack of operational science to support a theory it cannot be demonstrated to be true.
The teaching of evolution, however is not just a theory of origins, but a religion that teaches: anthropology (man's place in the universe),ethics (no moral absolutes are possible and chance or chaos provides higher order), it presumes a metaphysic, and destroys the nobility of human teleology (purpose or end). In the end the teaching of evolution destroys goodness, not just that which is good but even the possibility of goodness. It is small wonder that the as evolution is taught crime increases (we are just animals after all) homosexuality is taught (there can be no morals in a universe of pure chance) and corruption follows.
You’ve said it all.... in a God-made nutshell!
Sounds like the choice is leave or let the state turn your kids into evolution-believing homosexuals, and they’re leaving. Governments can only get so oppressive and people start to leave.
Face it...Canada is not the home of the free and the brave!
bump
“In 2002, social workers in Aylmer removed seven children from a Mennonite family because the family used spanking as a form of discipline.”
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That’s what I’m really scared of. The government taking children from Christian families. If they allow homosexual foster parents, they could be taken from a Christian family and given to a homosexual, satan worshipper, whatever, since those practices are allowed while Christian practices are not.
We obviously agree on homosexuality, however we will have to agree to disagree on evolution. You sound like you are a very educated person, but you are ignoring the fundamentals of science as unable to explain any origin.
I will use this analogy. If a human body is found murdered and decayed to the impossibility of recognition, do the police say “only god knows who did it?” Of course not. Just because the process of the murder was not witnessed by any human being (as in many cases), it does not mean that science, forensics, anthropology, chemistry, biology, physics, DNA testing, etc can’t be used to link a suspect to the murder and identify the victim. The same goes with the creation of man. Could evolution be wrong? Very unlikely but possible. Every field of science, just like in solving a murder, is used in evolution to find an NATURAL explanation for HOW and not WHY we are here. Remember that evolution uses a NATURAL explanation, not a SUPERNATURAL explanation of how we evolved. This does NOT eliminate God, because religion explains why we are here and how to live moral lives. Don’t let the left-wing communists steal religion from you, and don’t let them steal science either. We need a conservative majority in this country, and we will fall behind in many scientific fields if we deny physical evidence that disagrees with certain religious beliefs.
“In the case of evolutionary theories each and every part of the theory lacks even a credible demonstration that it could occur.”
I could give you 1000 pages of why this false. A few examples are that scientists have documented genetic and structural variation over time over the past 100 years, they have shown that genetic materials of the bacteria flagellum are NOT irreducibly complex, but actually have cellular functions on their own, random gene mutations and deformalities create real physical changes that are passed on through a species which has been observed in the laboratory (also with hereditary diseases), etc. etc etc etc. Remember, you really cannot deny with credible evidence that the earth is billions of years old. That means genetic mutations and natural selection have occured over millions of years, producing what we are today.
“The teaching of evolution, however is not just a theory of origins, but a religion that teaches:....”
Come on now, your streatching it a bit. Liberals have made it seem like evolution is religion....don’t let them do it!
“evolution destroys goodness, not just that which is good but even the possibility of goodness.”
Of course not! Remember, scientists have found evolution, with strong evidence, to be be a natural explanation of how we are here, it says nothing about GOD or morality, ethics, homosexuality, how to live our lives, etc. Again, liberals want you to think that, but its not true. Man’s place in the universe is not dictated by evolution, it is dictated by you moral and religious beliefs. You could argue that evolution teaches that man is just an “animal”, and therefore crime, homosexuality, murder, etc is OK, but you are misleading yourself and others. These behaviors do not occur because evolution gives them an excuse, they occur because of personal upbringing, childhood experience, and moral memes passed on by parents, grandparents, and friends. I have never heard anybody commit a murder or crime because he/she said” i’m an animal, so i can do whatever i want!” Remember, the islamofascists are very religious people most of whom don’t believe in evolution. The religious principles taught to them by the Koran are such that many awful behaviors CAN be justified. In fact, I have 10 pages of quotes from the Koran that COMMAND Muslims to kill infidels, Jews, and Christians. Imagine how many Muslims will radicalize and use these passages in the Koran to justify their behaviors. My point is that their is no proof whatsoever that is statistically significant that shows study of evolution contributes or allows immoral behavior, rather, there are 100 other things that allow or promote immoral behavior including Islam, where immoral behavior is rampant in the Koran.
Remember, don’t let liberals steal science, or make you think that they can impose science on you to eradicate religion. You are free to disregard any scientific evidence if you choose, but you can’t impose that belief in public school science class. Read the research yourself and make an educated judgement. You will find that science works alongside religion in a pretty good balance.
In our Christian school we teach the falsehoods of the religion of evolution and the health problems of homosexuality. In Canada too.
Quebec's is a bit more complex, but the deal is the same.
The Canadians do not use the First Amendment to beat up on each other because, alas, they do not have the First Amendment.
On the other hand, they use Canadian history as a way to force conformity. The Mennonites turn out to not be well embedded in Canadian history so they don't count for much. Consequently they can be kicked around by a Quebec school system bureaucrat (Ministry of Truth, eh?) and no one outside their own small community cares.
Now, having gotten through that part so that you and I can think about this through Canadian filters, what class do you think is most appropriate for instructing Mennonite children in totalitarianism?
Canadian history perhaps?
If its a catholic school then it really shouldn’t be forced to teach evolution. My argment is that evolution doesnt contract religion, and evolution can exist alongside religion. Its liberals who are trying to use science to drive a wedge into religion.
It's not surprising to find Liberals and Public School Sectarians joining in the frey (in a broad historic sense).
The actions being taken in Quebec are not different in principle from those taken by the madman at Nickel Mines PA last year. They are certainly as rational eh!
That's because there are no other scientific theories. There are some philosophical hypothesis that might be good for philosophy class or religious studies, but nothing based in science.
Oh, yes, many claim such a basis, but the people who actually do science for a living reject it.
Yes there is that list of "scientists" maintained by the Discovery Institute that signed a petition vaguely claiming there are some unstated problems with evolution, but they would make up such a tiny fraction (less than 1%) of actual practicing scientists that they're irrelevant, and obviously religiously motivated rather than scientifically motivated.
Evolution is junk science and, as junk science goes, a spectacularly dangerous variety of junk science with two world wars and a couple of hundred million human bodies to its credit and to the credit of ideologies based on it. It’s been repeatedly disproven and should have been abandoned after the fruit fly experiments and any normal science theory would have; evolution of course is about lifestyles and not not science. The Mennonites are correct in getting ready to leave rather than have that sort of crap forced on them.
What part of evolution don’t you agree with? I have debated this issue for years, with many people. All of the creationists’ attempts to debunk evolution have failed, it is a solid theory that is accepted by every single scientist with credentials. If a scientist found that evolution was wrong, he would be famous. It hasn’t happened.
Religion does not clash with evolutionary theory, they can easily exist side by side. Science classes should teach facts, and facts are supported by scientific evidence. Religion and philosophy class is where God and creationism should be debated, not in science class.
I would be happy to discuss this issue with you, if you want to provide me with scientific evidence that evolution is incorrect.
All of it. Why?
>Religion does not clash with evolutionary theory
Yeah it does, big time. An evolutionite has no logical basis for morality. Jeffrey Dahmer described the impact which evolutionism had on his life thus:
"If a person doesn't think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what's the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That's how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all came from slime. When we died, you know , that was it, there is nothing..."
The only reason that "secular humanist" societies like Canada function at all is that the basic ideas of normal religion are imprinted upon most people biologically. In cases of psychopaths like Dahmer or Stalin of course, that doesn't work. Telling guys like that about Charles Darwin and evolutionism is a formula for disaster.
I hate to disagree with you, as I enjoy bashing liberals instead, however, you did not come up with any evidence that evolution is false. Many on this board are good people, but they keep insisting that evolution is a “religion.”-and you cite Dahmer.
Well, I can cite 10,000 examples of Muslim’s using their religion to justify murder, slavery, beating, torture, gassing, beheading, and torturing.
My point is anybody can use anything to justify living immoral lives. There is absolutely no credible evidence that people who accept evolution as true live more immoral lives than people who don’t (And the thousands of islamic jihadists also refuse to believe in evolution).
Your religious beliefs are sacred, but they should not prevent you from accepting scientific evidence collected over 100 years.
I would suggest reading the Judge’s Opinion from “Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District”-the Judge is a conservative appointed by Bush
http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf
I certainly accept evolution as God’s way of creating living things on this earth. If and when I eventually meet God, and he tells me that evolution is wrong, I’m confident he will forgive me for believing the scientific evidence.
Other origin theories based on science? as in the scientific method? Better get working on that requirement for the evolution first. You know, things that can actually be measured ... observed, tested, etc.
For example, using the “fossil record” to date rocks and then rocks to date the fossil record is call circular logic and is hardly science.
You started with bacteria and you ended up with...bacteria. Was more complex genetic information created or were certain traits expressed from genetic information that was already present.
It should concern every evolutionist that with every condition favorable to evolution changes being simulated in labs they have so far failed to evolve one species to another nor to demonstrate the creation of greater genetic complexity. No mechanism, no explanation for spontaneous generation and no success in the labs despite billions upon billions of dollars spent. Even global warming voodoo has more operational science behind it.
The results were so unambiguous that several of the scientists involved in the studies publicly renounced evolution, including the famous case of Richard Goldschmidt who afterwards claimed that he was being ostracized by colleagues for it.
This was an outright laboratory test for the idea of macroevolution, and the theory plainly failed the test.
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