Posted on 08/16/2007 12:24:15 PM PDT by DanielLongo
Not unlike what happened in Waco, Texas between the Branch Davidians and the BATF/FBI.
There must be a Mormon running for political office.
“For further reading, try “Massacres of the Mountains: A History of the Indian Wars of the Far West” by J. P. Dunn. There’s a chapter about Mountain Meadows, and lot’s about the Indian Wars, starting with the Pueblo Uprising.”
I’m sorry but I don’t get it. It’s about a book, that’s all.
Braveheart isn’t real? I’ve got that movie memorized as true history. Are you sayin Jollywood got to me again? Darn, I wish they wouldn’t do that. It’s like “300” that muslims are complaining about. Nobody knows the exact history of the Spartans so the movie itself is just a movie. I though very well done.
That's how long it has been since Hollywood has done a good factually based movie.
PEARL HARBOR may have done well at the box office, but it had so many factual errors, I can't even begin to list them all. TORA! TORA! TORA!, on the other hand, was excellent (at least by Hollywood's low standards) from the viewpoint of historical accuracy but was also a box office flop.
Don't even get me started on TITANIC. This was nothing more than exploitation of a historical event as background to showcase a sleazy love story and show off Leonardo DiCapitated.
In another 150 years, look for Hollywood to sound the alarm on al Qaeda, maybe.
It is about those writing the screenplay turning this tragedy into a “Mormon” conspiracy. They want to portray Church authorities as turning a blind eye to a massacre. They have also sought to sell the movie on the “secret cult” angle, an approach that only hillbillies buy into, but do nonetheless. They also try to imply that Church members accept or dismiss this horrific massacre. That is not the case. More troubling, is now FReepers are suggesting that Hollywierd can be trusted for truth finding and objective documentary. It belies their own prejudices.
You are exactly right about Patton and Tora Tora Tora. I didn’t think back far enough. Of course, we can all agree that it was a different day in Hollywood. It was before Nixon. That is about when the “storytelling” began. They know they can rewrite history, because unlike yourself, people wouldn’t know the difference. I did not see the other films, but I’ll take your word for it.
The book I recommended in my post was written in the 1870’s and has nothing to do with Hollywierd or Freepers. I stand by my recommendation.
Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 2:, p.311-312
It was observed this morning that the government of the United States was the best or most wholesome one on the earth, and the best adapted to our condition. That is very true. And if the constitution of the United States, and the laws of the United States, and of the several States, were honored by the officers, by those who sit in judgment and dispense the laws to the people, yes, had even the letter of the law been honored, to say nothing of the spirit of it, of the spirit of right, it would have hung Governors, Judges, Generals, Magistrates, &c., for they violated the laws of their own States.
Such has been the case with our enemies in every instance that this people have been persecuted. If a person belonging to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was guilty of stealing while living in the States, or if any of that Church were found guilty of murder, or any other transgression of the civil law, they ought to have been tried by the law, and have received the punishment affixed to the crime. Did any of the Latter-day Saints object to that! No, not one. Joseph the Prophet never objected to it, but on the contrary he urged it, prayed for it, and wished the Church to be delivered from all transgressors.
While we were in Illinois, if every transgressor of the law of that State, in our community, had been taken up and tried and punished, every Saint would have said, "Amen, we are better without than with them." So we say here, we are far better off without wicked men than with them. I would rather be in the midst of these mountains with one thousand, or even five hundred, men who are Latter-day Saints, than with five hundred thousand wicked men, in case all the forces of the earth were to come against us to battle, for God would fight the battles of the Saints, but He has not agreed to fight the battles of wicked men. I say again that the constitution, and laws of the United States, and the laws of the different States, as a general thing, are just as good as we want, provided they were honored. But we find Judges who do not honor the laws, yes, officers of the law dishonor the law. Legislators and law makers are frequently the first violators of the laws they make. "When the wicked rule the people mourn," and when the corruption of a people bears down the scale in favor of wickedness, that people is nigh unto destruction.
We have the proof on hand, that instead of the laws being honored, they have been violated in every instance of persecution against this people; instead of the laws being made honorable, they have been trampled under the feet of lawyers, judges, sheriffs, governors, legislators, and nearly all the officers of the government; such persons are the most guilty of breaking the laws.
To diverge a little, in regard to those who have persecuted this people and driven them to the mountains, I intend to meet them on their own grounds. It was asked this morning how we could obtain redress for our wrongs; I will tell you how it could be done, we could take the same law they have taken, viz., mobocracy, and if any miserable scoundrels come here, cut their throats. (All the people said, Amen.)
This would be meting out that treatment to wicked men, which they had measured to innocent persons. We could meet them on their own ground, when they will not honor the law, but will kill the Prophets and destroy the innocent. They could drive the innocent from their homes, take their houses and farms, cattle and goods, and destroy men, women, and children, walking over the laws of the United States, trampling them under their feet, and not honoring a single law.
Suppose I should follow the example they have shown us, and say, "Latter-day Saints, do ye likewise, and bid defiance to the whole clan of such men?" Some who are timid might say, "O! our property will be destroyed, and we shall be killed." If any man here is a coward, there are fine mountain retreats for those who feel their hearts beating, at every little hue and cry of the wicked, as though they would break their ribs.
After this year we shall very likely again have fruitful seasons. Now, you cowards, if there are any, hunt in these mountains until you find some cavern where no person can find you, and go there and store up grain enough to last you and your families seven years; then when the mob comes, take your wives and your children, and creep into your den, and there remain until the war is over.
Do not apostatize to save your lives, for if you do, you are sure to lose them. You may do some good by laying up a little more grain than you want, and by handing out a biscuit to a brave hearted soldier passing by, hungry and fatigued. I could hide myself in these mountains, and defy five hundred thousand men to find me. That is not all, I could hide this whole people, and fifty times more, in the midst of these mountains, and our enemies might hunt until they died with old age, and they could not find us. You who are cowards, lay up your crops another year and hide them away.
You know that almost every time that Gentiles address us in public, they are very mindful to caution the Latter-day Saints "not to fight, now don't fight." Have we ever wanted to fight them? No, but we have wanted to preach to them the Gospel of peace.
Again, they say, "We are afraid that you, Latter-day Saints, are becoming aliens to the United States; we are afraid your hearts are weaned from the brotherhood down yonder." Don't talk about weaning now, for we were weaned long ago, that is, we are or should be weaned from all wickedness and wicked men. I am so perfectly weaned that when I embraced "Mormonism," I could have left father, mother, wife, children, and every relation I had, and am weaned from everybody that will turn a deaf ear to the voice of revelation. We are already weaned, but remember, we are not weaned from the constitution of the United States, but only from wickedness, or at least we should be. Let every man and woman rise up in the strength of their God, and in their hearts ask no favors of the wicked; that is the way to live, and then let the wicked persecute, if they choose.
Are we going to fight? No, unless they come upon us and compel us either to fight or be slain.
It’s in my LDS Collector’s Library. But like I said, it’s waaaay out of context.
Convenient how they left out the part about the possibility of persecutors coming to Utah, attacking innocent Mormons, and we could respond the way the “gentiles” treated us. It leaves out all the context—that this was a statement that the Mormons believe in self-defense, and were sick of being pushed around by their so-called “Christian” brothers.
You are right. I didn’t even recognize the quote when I read from it. So, I was wrong about it not being in there. I won’t dodge that. Your point is accurate. Brigham Young never said “this is what we will do”. Rather, he used it to describe the treatment they had received for so many years. This blatant use out of context does, however, reaffirm my point that the website and its article are misleading.
Still, you can explain what happened, but not justify it. It's a terrible episode in the country's history.
That’s my point. Who is justifying it?
I’m still trying to figure out what the big deal is with all the Mountain Meadow Massacre mania recently. Was it a horrible crime? Yes, clearly, and it was shameful.
Does that mean that an entire faith is guilty of what some members did 150 years ago? No.
Is that shameful incident representative of an entire Church? No.
So, what is the point of all the publicity now?
The account is well written as expected; but penned with buckets of white-wash.
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