364 DEATHS IN GEORGIA PSYCH HOSPITALS—TIP OF ICEBERG

01/11/07 | Fred A. Baughman

[dmz]

You’ve avoided the question. You say the cause is not biological. What is the cause?

[cinives]

Brain, brain, what is brain [Monty Python, I think]

Now you are nearing the point. The point is, we have no idea what specific chemicals, brain parts, or so on are responsible for any idea, delusion, behavior, and so on.

Psychiatry claims they know what is normal, and what is abnormal. Fred Baughman cries bulls#!t on that notion.

I have asked every person, show me a study that can be replicated that when researchers see chemicals at x level, y ratio, this part of the brain, the person always performs behavior z. Schizophrenia studies are instructive. Psychiatrists touted that it has a genetic marker - right up until tests of siblings with the same genetic marker didn’t have schizophrenia.

If there is no such study pinpointing the biology responsible for a behavior, then no one understands the precise cause of behavior, and thus any drug used to affect behavior does not target any known mechanism. And indeed that is the case - psych drugs affect the entire mind and body, which is why they have such severe side effects.

[dmz]

OK. I think I understand your position.

It is your contention that no studies have been carried out and replicated that show specifically the biology behind mental illness. That being the case, all of the medications used are just glorified guess work that target the behavior we want stopped, not the underlying biological condition (since we don’t know what it is), if one exists at all.

http://www.neurotransmitter.net/bipolar.html

I’m not a scientist, discussing that aspect of it is certainly outside of my abilities, but the link above has some intersting stuff contained therein. I do believe, based on what I’ve seen and read, that you are shortchanging the science behind the medications associated with mental illness. JMO.

I have no expectation of psychiatry being an exact science. I, being the broken record that I am, can really only point to my personal and direct experience with a bipolar parent. Yes, it is behavior that is the indicator of a problem. Yes, the meds seem to target the behavior. Yes, the meds work (again my scientific sample contains only 1 subject). No, the side effects are not worse than the disease itself.

[cinives]

You have nailed it.

If psychiatry were honest and upfront about its capabilities and what it was actually doing, then fine, you have informed consumers of services who are cognizant of and know what the treatment can and can’t do, what short and long term effects it has, and so on.

The problem is, they lie about what they know and don’t know, they are in cahoots with the drug companies to use drugs which are largely untested in the long term, have known short-term dangerous side effects about which neither drug company nor psychiatrist are especially forthcoming, and they are not informing the patient or their family about any of this.

And that is my entire beef with psychiatry.

If a medical doctor said he wanted to give you chemotherapy to correct your heartburn, you’d sue for malpractice once you found out that it’s used only for cancer treatments.

Psychiatrists say they’ll give you “this” drug to help with bipolar, but not inform you that while on it you may experience manic episodes that may well be violent towards yourself and others, if you take it long term you will likely suffer from tardive diskinesia, if you stop taking it you may be more inclined to commit suicide, and so on. Depakote has been implicated in causing Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS). Zyprexa has been implicated in causing diabetes. Anyone who wants to argue that point will have to explain the man in the recent Depakote vs. Zyprexa trial who started with a blood sugar of 84 and died during the trial, on Zyprexa, with a blood sugar of 843. I don’t know any doctors who, when starting patients on any of these drugs, do a full workup of blood and other tests and keep testing over the duration of time the patient is on the drug(s).

Tell me, why do you suppose every school shooter was recently on or was still on psychiatric drugs at the time they committed their crimes, and why is that hushed up ?

IMO the profession of psychiatry has a lot of blood and wrecked lives on its hands for which it refuses to take responsibility.

[dmz]

I don’t know any doctors who, when starting patients on any of these drugs, do a full workup of blood and other tests and keep testing over the duration of time the patient is on the drug(s).
____________

Is this your personal experience or from the basis of your research? Over the last 12 years, my mom has had 3 psychiatrists. The full blood workup was the first thing each one of them did, and each one of them, without prompting, made themselves available to us, the patient’s family. Once a year, or at the onset of a manic episode (everyone of which was the result of her stopping the meds), bloodwork was done. We were kept fully informed at each change in the cocktail, what we could expect, what could happen, so forth and so on.

I am no cheerleader for psychiatrists. I don’t doubt for a minute that some are engaging in research on their patients. But the ones with whom I’ve had actual, first hand contact with, are nothing like the people you describe.

Anyway, the civil discussion back and forth has been appreciated.

[cinives]

the civil discussion back and forth has been appreciated.

Likewise.

My post was from both research and from personal experience in my family and among my friends and acquaintances. I got involved in the topic based on some experiences by me and mine during the course of a long and very messy custody battle during which my ex tried to take full custody after disappearing and not seeing the kids for 4 years, and he tried to prove that a kid needed psychiatric care (adhd and depression) because many of his family were doing it because of similar behaviors. I objected because common sense told me the fact that life was suddenly chaotic and the kids didn't know from one day to the next where they'd sleep that night because of their father's threats, and that was the cause of the problems in school since there were none of those problems before the lawyers and family court stepped in.

Incidentally he tried to force us all into therapy in order to prevent homeschooling, and the judge, once we got before one, happily, stopped the threats and restored us to sanity in fairly short order. That was the worst several years of my life, and I felt like I was fighting for all our lives, literally.

During this time I contacted a lot of people, talked to a lot of doctors - naturopathic, psychiatric, medical - did a lot of reading, spoke with a lot of teachers, and stumbled on Peter Breggin's book "Reclaiming Our Children", which led to a lot of other reading of other books and studies mentioned in those books.

So while I am certainly not formally trained and have no medical credentials, I do have a strong science background and have a strong network of friends who can interpret medically what I might miss. Altho the threat passed about 6 years ago, I have never forgotten the power the courts have to turn anyone over to involuntary treatment, and will be forever grateful for the judge I had. And remembering all that, to this day I shudder when I think of what might have been. I have happy, healthy, successful, never-medicated kids who know that adversity happens but good family and friends are better than any other tonic in such a situation.

Sorry for the personal story, but it explains the intensity I feel around this subject.