Posted on 08/08/2007 8:00:00 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
seven,
it is even easier than that...
Don’t make a major doctrine out of an obscure passage
whose context is to argue for a different doctrine.
Thanks for asking.
ampu
Elsie,
No assimilation. When you assimilate, you make
an as... oh, never mind.
I do have the advantage of the new “MormonGlide Additive”!
Sprinkle a bit of scripture on your cereal in the morning
and heresies slide off you like saffron off a Hare Krishna!
It works with all major cultic groups, including American
bred cults like Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christian
Science.
Found wherever unadulterated Bibles are sold!
best,
ampu
“Too late, you already advocated it. I’m having your name tag printed up... Where would you like to serve?”
OK, well... apparently the greatest need would be the
Bible Committee, but it will be a biiiiig job!
:-)
ampu
Sandude...I don't worry about my marginalization within the Republican Party. I worry about eternity, period. I cannot support Romney, and it matters not one iota if I am banned from FR or if the Republican Party quits taking my money. I'm not playing a game to posistion myself for power, I am voting my conscience.
I am aware of your feelings here as you've told me this before and I don't want to debate the point. I think that your feelings may be considered typical of the group we are speaking of here. Someone may want to challenge you as to it's size (you stated 5% of voters) but for our discussion I'll concede that this may in fact be an accurate percentage. If the number is in fact this large it could very well bring about a GOP loss in the general election if Mitt is the candidate.
...the Republican had better send a strong candidate to face Hillary, ....The Pubblies had better get it right and send the right candidate or there will be huge repercutions.
We are in agreement here. I'm not really committed to any candidate at this point. It's a little early to commit and I will wait to see who emerges from the primaries. Having said that I can also state that Mitt is someone I can support and if he is our standard bearer then I would work my butt off in his behalf. I can't say that about McCain or Gulliani. I would vote for them but I don't think I would be pounding the drum loudly in their behalf. Perhaps they could get me fired up if they garnered the nomination. Fred Thompson's candidacy is becoming a joke at this point. I can't get excited about somebody who is not an active participant. The slippage he's seeing in the polls shows that I'm not alone. As for the second tier candidates, they mostly seem like single issue guys. If any of them breaks through then I'll certainly give them a close look. I vote in California and many of them won't be around when our primary rolls around. No matter what I will vote with the GOP in the general election and against the true evil that threatens our country.
Things may change but right now it appears that the race for the nomination is between Rudy and Mitt. McCain shot himself in the foot with immigration and I think that Fred's candidacy is dying on the vine as he sits on the sidelines. Here in lies the problem in my view. Many if not most of the 5% block you're in won't vote for Rudy either because of his abortion stand. If we're both right then the only way for the GOP to win in the general election is for one of the second tier candidates to win the nomination AND rise to the challenge of beating the Clinton machine. Fred is a wild card in this but until he declares and gets into the fray it is wasted bandwidth talking about his chances. So CC, my question to you is who do you think will rise out of the second tier to save the country from a Clinton/Obama ticket?
The thrust of my initial post was to speculate on how the general publics viewpoint about Mormonism might change if the dems get control of the entire government in this next election cycle. If Mitt missteps and loses either the nomination or the general election by a wide margin then I don't think much will change at all in the short term. If it is a close race where Romney either loses the nomination or the general election by a narrow margin, then that is where things get interesting in my opinion. In such a scenario your voting block would essentially become the power brokers insuring his defeat.
So, in my view we are very likely to face at least four years of democratic control and here's why. I think that the race in the general election will be very close. This has been the case in the last two presidential election cycles and I see no reason to forcast a sweeping mandate for either party. If Romney is our guy and your group keeps him out of the White House then people are going to seriously start to wonder why you guys abandoned the party. If Rudy is the nominee and he loses over his abortion stance then people are going to wonder why your group kept Romney from getting the nomination.
Now, if an examination of your reasons for denying Mitt were based on valid reasons then no Mormon will ever be considered again for the presidency. I don't think that will be the case because your view of Mormonism is so out of balance with reality that it is laughable, and as you said in your post...
...there will be huge repercutions.
One of those repercussions will be for more honest historians to seriously study the history of Mormonism and it's founder. I think that this will be very healthy for the church and it's growth. It's late for me today and there is a lot more to talk about. I'm sure that you will want to respond and I look forward to the conversation. Until then, have a great day.
You say it’s an obcure passage, and yet you also say you know what it’s context is???
I say that God’s ways are not our ways. We don’t know, but He and his prophets do. So we do know.
Amos 3:7
What would we do without them?
I say that God’s ways are not our ways. We don’t know, but He and his prophets do. So we do know.
Amos 3:7
What would we do without them?
That’s been taken care of by those who do just what you initially suggested they do. Perhaps you need to choose between what you say and what you do?
Does Obama have to explain his Madrossa (sp) years?
You just can’t have it both ways.
No, silly. He’s a Lieberal Democrat and rules don’t apply to them.
seven,
The context is quite clear - the reality of the
resurrection of the saints. I don’t know of anyone
who disputes that. Do you?
The cryptic sentence though that say “else why would
they be baptized for them...” isn’t clear. We don’t know
who “they” are. We don’t know if “they” were Christians
or pagans. We don’t know if what “they” were doing
was sanctioned by God or if it was the carry over of
a pagan ritual. I could go on, as hundreds of commentators
have done over the past two millennium.
What we do know is that the doctrine of baptism of the dead
as practiced within the cult of mormonism contradicts other
scripture and is false.
best,
ampu
One more passage, and then I’m out. It’s been fun discussing with you, but I really have to go, likely for several days. I hope you would read this entire passage.
Cheers
Isaiah 29
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
17 Is it not yet a very little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?
18 ¶ And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
19 The meek also shall increase their Joy in the LORD, and the boor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.
20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:
21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.
22 Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.
23 But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.
24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
1. The Gospel never need to be restored
2. There is no restored Gospel
3. The passage is just as cryptic as ever
The passage is just as cryptic as ever
That’s the whole point, isn’t it. The things that are cryptic should not be. ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, for the benefit of man, and He can and will make it known to us.
A couple more quick reference from me about Isaiah, and then I shut up for good. I am simply swamped. (I'm really not trying to have the last word, it's all yours) ;-)
3 Nephi 23:
1 And now, behold, I say unto you, that ye ought to search these things. Yea, a commandment I give unto you that ye search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.
2 For surely he spake as touching all things concerning my people which are of the house of Israel; therefore it must needs be that he must speak also to the Gentiles.
3 And all things that he spake have been and shall be, even according to the words which he spake.
4 Therefore give heed to my words; write the things which I have told you; and according to the time and the will of the Father they shall go forth unto the Gentiles.
2 Ne. 25: 5
5 Yea, and my soul delighteth in the words of Isaiah, for I came out from Jerusalem, and mine eyes hath beheld the things of the Jews, and I know that the Jews do understand the things of the prophets, and there is none other people that understand the things which were spoken unto the Jews like unto them, save it be that they are taught after the manner of the things of the Jews.
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