Posted on 08/06/2007 11:36:04 PM PDT by Blackyce
That wasn't the Russians, that was Sherman!
Lugovoi say that the all evidences of Britts are forged by MI-6.
What’s the motive?==
The motive is the revenge and he refused to become thier agent. Secondly it created the huge political scandal.
Your understanding of the American Constitution is in error. Do not try to make false equivalencies.==
Alright alright. American contitution allows to give up american citizens. I rather dissapointed.
Lets not get carried away. A government of gangsters is bad, but no one is as bad as communists. Communists have killed millions more people than gangsters, and while gangsters know that what they are doing is evil, communists kill with a clear conscious. Communists take evil to levels gangsters can't get away with because there is no gangster ideology, no ideological support from the mindless masses, only cult of personality, the crutch of every brutal dictator.
Yes, it is not easy for these Russian Orthodox that have the belief that if a Russian Tsar utter something it is the Truth.
The jihadist Shamil Basayev, the butcher of Beslan helped Russian Federation forces exterminate thousands of Georgians in the region of Abkhazia in the early 90’s. Putin is determined to finish the job. Cheka Putin and his “little Stalin” Ramzan Kadyrov, a “former terrorist” and the current Kremlin installed fuhrer of Chechnya are planning a Endlösung for the Georgian people.
For the English prosecutors: Most matters are a matter of law in England, not policy. So what is happening is because the law bids it.
For handing over evidence to Russia: I think that should this be allowed by English law, then they now have enough understanding of the situation to know that this is not going to work.
What happens at the moment is that the FSB lean on the courts and judges. It is not quite like the Soviet times where everything is directed from the center.
Litvinenko was arrested three times in Russia on made-up charges about actions he took as an FSB operative.
Each time he was acquitted, by a miracle, there was an FSB squad outside the court to arrest him. Finally they trumped up a charge which would have to be tried in some provincial court where the judge would be more in fear of the old KGB/FSB and just do what they wanted.
Just look at the number of mysterious deaths from “bomb outside apartment” , “mystery hit-man”.
Putin would not be in this mess if he had known where it would end. It is one of those situations which started small and with each attempt to make small back into nothing, got bigger and bigger. The Polonium had been successfully used as a poison several times before in “died from food poisoning, while in custody” like the old “died from heart attack, while in custody”, but this time Lugovoi botched the dose. If he had not, we would never know anything about this.
Putin, would not have started this if he knew where it was going to end. Just like Nixon was not a crook, but he made a bad decision early on and then gambled on covering it up.
Now it will never go away. Putin’s problems will start when he is no longer president.
>You say it out of your snobism. I see that many
>criminals got sentenced to the severe punishment
>each day. If you saw Russin TV show “Petrovka, 38”
>each day then you knew it.
>
“I see that many criminals got sentenced to the severe
punishment each day.”
That is because they do not have the FSB to protect them.
If they had used FSB protection from FSB workers doing “contract” work after they have finished at the office, then they would have been OK.
>“It is worse than that. The Post-Cold-War era is worse
>than the Cold War, and the FSB are worse than the KGB.
>Assassinations, bombings, kidnap, false imprisonment,
>theft. They make the old KGB look lovable as an
>organization.”
>
>
>Lets not get carried away. A government of gangsters
>is bad, but no one is as bad as communists. Communists
>have killed millions more people than gangsters, and
>while gangsters know that what they are doing is evil,
>communists kill with a clear conscious. Communists
>take evil to levels gangsters can’t get away with
>because there is no gangster ideology, no
>ideological support from the mindless masses,
>only cult of personality, the crutch of every
>brutal dictator.
>
The difference I mean is that the KGB were centrally directed and controlled. The Soviets were an entity who could be negotiated with and had a clear policy.
The FSB has many factions, some of them hating each other. The situation is more volatile and more dangerous for ordinary people. You knew where you stood with the KGB.
“I still trust Putin. He’s got the hoards to the south to deal with.”
Putin is expert at dealing with the hordes to the South. He is expert at bringing in foreign Wahabist terrorists on Russian documents which allow them to transit Russia, when they have been refused transit of countries surrounding Caucasus. Then he knows that with Chechnya in the hands of islamists, it will never be pro-US, pro-West.
They’ve already tried bombing and shelling regardless of civilian casualties, and that did not work. So how exactly is Putin going to deal with “the horde” ? I think his policy of using the jihadists to make sure that Chechyna is destabilized and neither successful for Chechens nor pro-West is a winning formula - for Putin.
Still does not explain motive of MI6. Why would they want Litvinenko to become their agent ? Even if they did, why attract attention by murdering him ?
If they murdered Litvinenko to pin it on Putin
a) How you explain all the other FSB murders and poisonings in Russia ? MI6 did it ?
b) Why would MI6 want to pin anything on Putin anyway ?
Still does not explain motive of MI6. Why would they want Litvinenko to become their agent ? Even if they did, why attract attention by murdering him ?==
It wasn’t happen at the moment. The issue unwinded during sometimes. At first Litvinenko was the asset for MI-6 since he has the important contacts in the FSB duirng some times after his defection. But later when they understood that Litvinenko got obstructed by all his contacts so his value was deminished then they may decide to use him in the scandal.
I invite you to seek who benefits from the scandal? Putin? Obviously not. Litvinenko was just the small fish: some traitor defected, had no importance. SO why such fuss to kill him into such strange manner? If Berezovskii was poisoned like this then I agree it could be Putin work. But Litvinenko? I beg your pardon:)). Russian proverb says: “Do not fire cannon to the sparrow”. Putin knows well all russian proverbs.
a) How you explain all the other FSB murders and poisonings in Russia ? MI6 did it ?==
I particularly no nothing about “other FSB murders and poisonings” except FSB used poison to kill the well known chechen terrorist in 2002. But they say it was the plain cnianid so nothing fancy. It was the operation to eliminate the terrorist threat hence hardly a “murder”. But it was only one to know. What else?
b) Why would MI6 want to pin anything on Putin anyway ?==
Just to fulfill the order of the british goverment. Just to get the barganing chips to them for trades with Putin. But Putin probably refused to trade it. So scandal came up.
There is more here. This is Larisa Arap, anti-Putin organizer:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/13/wasylum113.xml
>It wasn’t happen at the moment. The issue unwinded during
>sometimes. At first Litvinenko was the asset for MI-6 since
>he has the important contacts in the FSB duirng some times
>after his defection. But later when they understood that
>Litvinenko got obstructed by all his contacts so his value
>was deminished then they may decide to use him in the scandal.
>I invite you to seek who benefits from the scandal? Putin?
>Obviously not. Litvinenko was just the small fish: some
>traitor defected, had no importance. SO why such fuss to
>kill him into such strange manner? If Berezovskii was
>poisoned like this then I agree it could be Putin work.
>But Litvinenko? I beg your pardon:)). Russian proverb says:
>“Do not fire cannon to the sparrow”. Putin knows well all
>russian proverbs.
>
If Litvinenko was “small fish” to FSB then he was a small fish to MI6.
Motive for Putin is that with Berezovsky, Litvinenko and Goldfarb dead, Putin is better off. He has no-one publicizing his murders in Russia and his manipulation of the Chechen conflict for his domestic political ends.
There was not meant to be a scandal. Litvinenko was meant to be dead and quietly killed.
None of this explains how MI6 would obtain Polonium from the nuclear establishment near Gorky.
>>a) How you explain all the other FSB murders and poisonings
>>in Russia ? MI6 did it ?==
>
>I particularly no nothing about “other FSB murders and
>poisonings” except FSB used poison to kill the well known
>chechen terrorist in 2002. But they say it was the plain
>cnianid so nothing fancy. It was the operation to eliminate
>the terrorist threat hence hardly a “murder”. But it was
>#only one to know. What else?
>
Goldfarb lists all the murders in his book.
Mostly, it is “shot by unknown gunman outside apartment”
Second most frequent is “killed by bomb”
Some die in FSB prison of “mystery illnesses”.
>>b) Why would MI6 want to pin anything on Putin anyway ?==
>>
>
>Just to fulfill the order of the british goverment. Just
>to get the barganing chips to them for trades with Putin.
>But Putin probably refused to trade it. So scandal came up.
>
Yes but why wish to embarrass Putin ?
Motive for Putin is that with Berezovsky, Litvinenko and Goldfarb dead, Putin is better off. He has no-one publicizing his murders in Russia and his manipulation of the Chechen conflict for his domestic political ends.==
Yeah?:). Accualy here in Russia are so many Putin haters between the liberal journalists that many anti-Putin publications go each day. They simply reprint the westren publications if they scared to write thier own.
None of this explains how MI6 would obtain Polonium from the nuclear establishment near Gorky.==
They didn’t since ther are no such place as “Gorky” in the modern Russia. So what they mean, speaking “Gorky”, noone knows except them. “Gorky” was the place in the old Soviet Union but no such place in Russia almost 20 years already.
Thier mention of Gorky speaks eloquantly that their story is just the fairy tale. They divised it but not good since they made such mistake about that place(Gorky).
Goldfarb lists all the murders in his book. Mostly, it is “shot by unknown gunman outside apartment” Second most frequent is “killed by bomb” Some die in FSB prison of “mystery illnesses”.==
I didn’t read his book. But I know that many people was killed in Russia by bombs and gunmen. It wis called the criminal wars. Acually Berezovskii may talk much about it since many of his ciompetitors went dead by gunmen.
FSB eliminated quite few terrorists too. But FSB didn’t do it furtively. They just use their Speznaz, encirled the place where they terrorists hide then used the firepower to bring them down. They killed Maskhadov that way. But I hardly blame them for that. Rather praise them for that success.
Yes but why wish to embarrass Putin ?==
Just to make him soft for the allowing the foreign companies access to russian riches. It is the usual tactics. They (westerners) did it 100 years ago too.
>They didn’t since ther are no such place as “Gorky” in the >modern Russia. So what they mean, speaking “Gorky”, noone >knows except them. “Gorky” was the place in the old Soviet >Union but no such place in Russia almost 20 years already.
>Thier mention of Gorky speaks eloquantly that their story >is just the fairy tale. They divised it but not good since >they made such mistake about that place(Gorky).
>
97% of the World’s Polonium is manufactured in Russia:
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko_poisoning
Reports now state that scientists of the UK’s Atomic Weapons Establishment have confirmed the polonium was manufactured and the source is likely to originate from a Russian nuclear reactor.[35][13][19] This of course does not exclude the possibility that the polonium that killed Litvinenko was imported by a licensed commercial distributor, but no one—including the Russian government—has proposed that this is likely, particularly in regard to the radiation detected on the British Airways passenger jets travelling between Moscow and London.
It is said the FSB had access to radioactive material in order to trace Russian mafia money.[61]
Most of the world’s polonium-210 (210Po) is produced in Russia in Chernobyl-type RBMK reactors. About 100 grams (450,000 Ci) are produced by Russia annually. According to a claim by Sergei Kiriyenko, the head of Russia’s state atomic energy agency, RosAtom, all of it goes to U.S. companies through a single authorized supplier.[35]
Polonium-210 is a synthetic element that has a half-life of 138 days as it gradually transforms into lead. This means that after four months approximately half the polonium has been transformed, and it drops to about one eighth of its original potency a year after it was first produced. It is thus virtually impossible that the polonium came from a pre-1991 Soviet-era source, and it is unlikely to have been in storage for more than a year.
>The motive is the revenge and he refused to become thier >agent. Secondly it created the huge political scandal.
>
Putin is scared and cornered. He feels threatened. That is why he is ordering bombers and submarines on Soviet-style missions. It all makes Russia look silly, posturing away in the mirror. The West should have responded by not responding at all, just watching the Soviet bombers from lawn chairs, through binoculars.
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_laboratory_of_the_Soviet_secret_services
Journalist Anna Politkovskaya. During the Beslan school hostage crisis in September 2004 and while on her way to Beslan to help in negotiations with the hostage-takers, Politkovskaya fell violently ill and lost consciousness after drinking tea. She survived and was assassinated later.[9] According to a report by The Sunday Times, the drug was prepared in the FSB poison facility.[3]
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