Posted on 08/05/2007 7:28:27 AM PDT by knighthawk
there are numerous reasons to be there aside from nation building.
But nation building when the alternative is a completely chaotic mess that threatens a large chunk of the worlds oil supply is ok in my book.
There is much more at stake here than Iraq, but as we invaded Iraq and removed Saddam, we have a responsibility to those people.
Responsibility is not negotiable.
If that seems stupid or naive, so be it.
But its simple.
We do not EVER benefit from abdicating our repsonsibilities. It only seems that way for a short time.
Be patient.
read fast - I smell ozone
read fast - I smell ozone
Ooo talking points..!? Here try this:
All it took was one, Jaime Gorelick and an entire nation lulled to sleep. Didn't you love the 90s?
Bumpitttt.
Hey,I’m impressed.There’s actually some people who want to debate your posting instead of just telling you to get off. There’s hope for Free Republic yet !!!
Michael Yon Bump!
Makes me wonder how long it would have taken to pacify Iraq if Al Qaeda hadn’t been stirring things up. The original mission was to get rid of Saddam, not Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda interfered, to everyone’s detriment, but ultimately their own.
First, As in my last reply, we have a responsibility to these people, whether they hate us or not - Looking for external validation for doing the right thing is always a great way to get turned around and hopeless.
We do need to be there if Iran implodes or goes nuclear. In force. Iran isnt Iraq.
We wont be nuking them. We will need boots on the ground and naval/airpower if something really does go down. Because thats when russia and or china get involved.
We do have some say over the oil compared to the alternative. Russia, China or Iran controlling that supply. Why do you think the three of them keep trying to screw up our efforts there?
So far, the quagmire has worked on the terrorists for us.
Doesnt mean it always will, but life is full of no warranties.
We are at war. This isnt about investment. Its about winning with the least casualties and with the best long term prospects of avoiding more major warfare down the road.
Your attention Span for ROI is extremely short, and you seem to be a very selfish person who cares only for whats in it for himself .
Perhaps some soul searching is in order and I recommend a little faith. Or maybe a lot if its needed.
If we're going to colonize that dump and care for the hostile ingrates that live there, I should think we ought to be taking that oil in exchange for the trouble.
Who is your source for this conclusion? First of all, we haven't "colonized" anything. You really need to look up the definition of that word. Secondly, The feedback I'm getting from my multi-tour military friends is that most Iraqis are not "hostile ingrates" as you claim. The overwhelming majority of Iraqis want us to be there, and are on our side.
Why did we "take" Guadalcanal with blood and treasure?
For the lovely South Pacific beaches?
The answer will be found in every Real Estate 101 course: "Location! Location! Location!".
Guadalcanal was in a strategically vital location.
Likewise, Iraq is in a strategically vital location. Iraq lies right smack in the middle of the geographic region of the Planet Earth that contains 70% of the World's known oil reserves. Whoever militarily controls that region controls the economic carotid arteries of Western Civilization.
I know that it is fashionable in Left-Wing circles to dismiss the reality that oil is a vital strategic interest to a modern industrialized society. But, that is a reality.
We fought World War II with Japan because, when a Western oil embargo was imposed on Japan, the Japanese were forced to either drop to their knees or to capture the oil reserves of the Dutch East Indies.
Compared to the oil reserves of the Persian Gulf region, the Dutch East Indies were extremely small potatoes. Yet, Japan and the U.S. fought to the bitter end as a result.
The U.S. is not "taking" anybody's oil in the Persian Gulf.
We are, however, ensuring that NOBODY in the region be it Saddam Hussein's secular regime or the Iranian Islamist regime has the POWER TO SHUT OFF the oil supply of not only their own country but also of their Persian Gulf neighbors.
If you are part of the "No Blood for Oil" crowd that cannot envision what America and the rest of Western Civilization would be like with 70% of the Worlds know oil reserves controlled militarily by a nuclear-armed Islamist Iran or a nuclear-armed Baathist Iraq, then there is no reasoning with you.
Whether the Iraqis "hate us" or not is irrelevant and whether that is a permanent condition is debatable. The Germans "hated us" in April 1945 and the Japanese "hated us" in August 1945.
As the terrorist religious fanatics ran rampant throughout Iraq, those who initially thought they "hated" us have come to realize that we are their allies in defending their own homes. Thus, we have more and more tribes joining us to fight against the fanatics.
We are fighting in Iraq because the Persian Gulf region is the most vital strategic prize on the Planet Earth in the 21st Century.
Surrendering militarily control of the access of the Persian Gulf oil reserves and surrendering the wealth of the Persian Gulf to Islamist fanatics seeking to develop, buy or economically blackmail the acquisition of nuclear weapons and delivery systems is strategic lunacy.
When technology has advanced beyond the need for oil or when the Planet Earth runs out of oil and Western Civilization returns to the Age of Coal and Steam, then the Persian Gulf region will return to the strategic value that it had back in the 1700's: Zero.
That said, I believe that America's oil wastefulness is inexcusable.
I disagree.
You seem to want to abdicate responsibility very easily. Not sure you understand that responsibility doesnt mean “ until we dont want to anymore because its hard”
Do I want them to be an islamic state? Nope.
Do I want them killing one another over and over again? Nope.
But they need to sort their differences out, and according to the latest out of Iraq, Al-quaida is wearing out their welcome there. The surge is working.
Their government just splintered again. Guess what that is?
An opportunity to do it again better.
The average folks over there are not subhuman - ask a solider whose been among them.
They need our help now because they are broken and beset by enemies within their own midst. Kindve like us here.
Having said that, as I mentioned before, this is about far more that Iraq. But we start with living up to our responsibilities and doing what we say. Thats the start of us getting back to where we should be as a nation.
When things get tough, you stand your ground and push ahead.
Otherwise, You may as well resign yourself to never doing a single good thing in this world.
If you have the world view that we will never win, nor ever change anything, we may as well stop discussing, because you are lost friend.
Its been a hair over 4 years.
If you have kids, a 4 year old is really, challenging.
This isnt lost, nor is it hopeless, and its only really is lost when people get frustrated and tired and give up.
Dont do that. It never, never helps....
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.