Posted on 07/27/2007 5:08:29 PM PDT by fanfan
You’re starting it get it : “time” is the rate of Kinetic Energy change : t=dKE. Can you think of a “time” event that is NOT a Kinetic Energy event? Will send you $1000 in small, unmarked bills in a brown paper bag if you can. And failing that I’ll explain to you in a private post how it all works, why there is no possibility of reverse time travel.
Are you the poet? A $2 prize at least. Otto is obviously a socialist liberal but how does he vote the dem ticket in his ever widening circle? A lost soul indeed. Who knows, he may meet einstein out there, both still trying to figure out what “time” really is...
Yes. However, to be honest, I'm not the only poet.
"Who knows, he may meet einstein out there, both still trying to figure out what “time” really is..."
That's easy enough. Time is a given.
There is no such thing as “time” in and of itself. What you think of as “time” is nothing more than kinetic energy, from higher to lower potential energy levels, in the deceleration/weight modes, at some delta RATE. A $1000 prize to the first person who can demonstrate a “time” event that is not a kinetic energy event....maybe you could write a poem about the TIME PRIZE....
What do you mean by "RATE"?
The whole premis is wrong from the get-go. History has by definition already occured, therefore any attempted changes made will only result in what has already happened, history.
You don’t understand RATES? Pedaling your trike fast or slow, step on gas or brakes in your car, fast forward on your VCR tape, clocks that run fast or slow... As einstein said : “common sense” is nothing more than a collection of prejudices learned before junior high school. As a Classical Mechanical critter(CM world view)you just naturally take basic physics concepts as givens.
Concepts like there is some master cosmic clock that you try to keep “time” with in your human clocks. If there is no master/slave set-up, independent clocks diverge, wander off on their own. In England they have a cryogenically cooled room with 5 atomic clocks that keep “perfect time”. Problem is : they DON’T, un-linked and they diverge off from each other as well. The physicist who runs that lab said that they might as well turn off 4 of them, there is no such thing as a “master time clock”.
What this says then is that there is no such thing as “time” in and of itself, all that exists is KINETIC ENERGY that runs at a certain RATE, faster or slower, from higher to lower potential energy levels. t=dKE Can you think of a “time” event that is NOT a kinetic energy event?
And 4 vector space-time is a cartesian human invention, the REAL vectors are found in the 3 vector right hand motor/left hand generator rules : E, M and F vectors all at right angles to each other. Middle finger is E, index finger is M, thumb is F. With both hands/fingers thus extended, push thumb tips together, left palm out, right palm facing you. That’s a vector picture of how 3/6 vector space-time works.
Thus you don’t have to be in a relativistic rocket traveling at light speed to slow down “time”, just hold the baseball in your hand at rest instead of throwing it. If you’re going to make it here on this “time machine” thread, let me know WHY Heisenberg’s “delta momentum” and Einstein’s “rest mass” are oxymorons, and we can proceed into the wonderful, weird world of Quantum Mechanics.
Good point, but it hurts my head to try to understand it. Don’t some argue that it would create some kind of parallel universe and that limitless parallel universes already exist? Of course,that makes my head hurt too. I’d hate to see the kajillions of me that existed in parallel universes because I made different choices than I have right now. Going to take some aspirin now . . . . ;o)
Does someone have a time travel ping list?I'll start one in a few years. What's the rush? ;') Just bookmark this message, as I'll go back and edit in the ping list and stuff.
Oh, I understand rates well enough. I was just curious how you were going to define them without referencing time, which you said didn't exist.
And I understand that time is relative, both in the physical universe as well as the psychological one.
The second, which is defined as that fractional portion of the International Year 1900, is clearly dependent on the rotation of the Earth, which is not a constant. Therefor scientists, as a shortcut, have also defined the second in terms of that duration in which a specified number of wavelengths of Krypton 86 can be counted, or something like that. This is one form of atomic clock, and it can be made moderately compact in size.
An easier global reference is available in Global Positioning Satellite telemetry, which is utterly dependent on mutual synchronization. This eventually gets downloaded into cellular telephone networks, and bingo, we all get synchronized.
But note: It doesn't really matter what time it is, as long as we agree on it. Because of the advantages of doing so as opposed to going one's own route, it becomes an international standard.
As far as my own purposes are concerned, I can set my watch by the rumbling in my stomach at lunchtime. It's just like hearing the town clock strike.
Yes, you are definitely a CM denizen but one day it might DAWN on you that what you call “time” is nothing more than kinetic energy at some rate, which is mass, which is...
Next problem : who invented language, men or women?
If you want to commit a thread hijack, you might as well learn to do it with style.
Come on over. (To the Undead Thread.)
I’d be more interested in betting superfectas of the past.
Kinetic Energy is the given, “time” doesn’t exist, it’s a quantum ILLUSION just as a movie is an ILLUSION.
Kinetic energy, rates, and even electromagnetic energy are expressed in units that have a time component, (e.g. “the speed of light”).
If time did not exist, everything would happen at once.
The real question is not has time existed since the big bang, but whether time existed before!
You are having trouble getting over the first speed bump in QM. The c limit, KE rates, marathon runners, etc all involve CLOCKS. Why then the saying : a man who has only one clock knows what time it is, a man with TWO clocks is never....quite....sure....
Clocks use Kinetic Energy from higher to lower potential energy levels, at some delta RATE. If they are not linked in a master-slave relationship, they inevitably diverge. Even atomic clocks in the same room/environment show this divergence effect.
The “speed bump” for you then, as a confirmed CM denizen, is finally realizing that t=dKE in the Quantum Mechanics world, the foundation of the CM world you’ve always known as “common sense”. What did Einstein have to say about “common sense”?
As to TWO CLOCKS : historical anecdote : Captain Cook was exploring the Puget Sound, before he got killed in Hawaii. Only recently harrison in england had developed the first “pocket watch” to determine longitude(latitude by polaris was EASY). But he had TWO CLOCKS and they didn’t quite agree(show the same exact time). So while he’s naming a volcano after his LT RAINIER, or Vancouver, or discovery passage; his biggest hassle was trying to find out what TIME it was, thus his longitude.
Would it have helped him to know that there is no such THING as “time” in and of itself, only Kinetic Energy at some(diverging)rate? We call it entropy(the root cause of old age)or beginning signal(two clocks agreeing)becomes noise(diverging clocks). Order becomes chaos : 2nd law of thermodynamics.
I am aware that time is given a different consideration in Quantum Mechanics. So is gravity.
Why do you persist in denying the existence of time with circular definitions involving rates and entropy? Without time in which to operate, entropy means nothing.
It is as if you were trying to deny the direction called up, by saying things are simply oriented above other things. Above means up.
Rate means time.
Without time, all of the Universe is simply static, unmoving sameness and potentiality vectors. Not very different from the heat death of the universe, because nothing is moving. Motion has no meaning without time.
In quantum mechanics, time is reversible. How would you define entropy in QM terms?
You don’t need a clock to know that time is passing. I, for example, get sleepy and need to rest.
Good Night! (Or a pleasant interlude of having Kinetic Energy move from higher to lower potential energy levels.)
“motion has no meaning without time”...Newton’s First Law : an object(collection of fermions)will remain at rest, or move in a straight line(momentum)until an external force(mass-time)is impressed upon it. Gotta learn your basic PHYSICS before we can advance to higher levels.
In physics, motion cannot be defined without reference to time. Basic motion involves translation through distance over time.
Velocity is given by speed and direction. An acceleration describes a change in either speed or direction.
These Newtonian definitions depend upon time flowing at a constant rate, but nothing changes for the objects if time flows at a different rate altogether. If time stops, motion, velocity, and acceleration all stop.
I really don’t see the point of denying a basic physical parameter.
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