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The Iconoclast (Ron Paul article)
The Stranger, "Seattle's Only Newspaper" ^ | July 4,2007 | Eli Sanders

Posted on 07/05/2007 3:10:24 PM PDT by George W. Bush

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To: Abcdefg
Hey snipe, when were you on the Kennedy?

Did you see in the news yesterday that it was supposedly a terrorist target?

21 posted on 07/06/2007 5:58:59 AM PDT by Retired COB (Still mad about Campaign Finance Reform)
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To: cva66snipe

I don’t believe Ron Paul is conservative. Sorry.


22 posted on 07/06/2007 6:01:22 AM PDT by StarCMC (Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. —George Washington)
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: Retired COB
Hey snipe, when were you on the Kennedy? Did you see in the news yesterday that it was supposedly a terrorist target?

When I staggered up the wrong brow at pier 12? LOL. Just joking :>} CVA/CV 66 was AMERICA one carrier her senior. I'd see the Kennedy when it on rare occassions pulled into NOB NORVA usually headed for the yards. I saw the article a minute ago. Mayport surprises me for reasons I won't go into. I don't know the time frame this was to happen but if it was pre-9/11 it was a possibility of reality as was any base for that matter.

24 posted on 07/06/2007 10:31:25 AM PDT by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: StarCMC
I don’t believe Ron Paul is conservative. Sorry.

In terms of what is being sold today by politico's as Conservatism neither do I. The term Constitution Preservationist comes more to mind. When Bush and Thompson, McCain, etc can be called conservative it pretty much leaves the door open to anyone besides Rudy & Mitt to fall under Conservative. Ron Paul is the closest person in congress we have to believing in and upholding the government the founders intended for us to have.

25 posted on 07/06/2007 10:37:13 AM PDT by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: Abcdefg
That is a trick question. There is no candidate other than Ron Paul.

LOL Paul is my first choice. But I could handle voting for Huckabee, Tancredo, and Hunter in the general. That's it though unless a third party choice that's better comes along. The media's top four darlings of the election will not be getting my vote either in the primaries or general election. I think we can do beter than Rudy, Mitt, Fred, or John.

26 posted on 07/06/2007 10:42:39 AM PDT by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: StarCMC
Nah — I’m afraid RP doesn’t do it for me. Gold coins and free jets aside, I just think he’s way too out there for me. And I’m still scratching my head to figure out how he can run as a republican and not even be close to the platform on most issues. *shrugs*

Ron Paul is abotu as conservative as one can find in Congress. He is 100% pro constitution. Everything he votes for (or against) has to pass his constitutional litmus test. 97% of the 'republicans' in DC are drunk on power and could not give a rats arse about the constitution.

Ron Paul may not be perfect on ever issue. Ed Koch (former NYC mayer) once said something like, 'take 10 issues.. if you agree with me 100% on everything, you are insane and have no mind of your own.. however, if you agree with me on 7/10 issues, I would ask you to consider voting for me'...it was something along those lines.

Ron Paul might not be perfect. However, Paul, Tancredo, and Hunter and the best men for the job. Sadly, neither of the 3 will get it.
27 posted on 07/06/2007 8:03:06 PM PDT by BigTom85 (Proud Gun Owner and Member of NRA)
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To: George W. Bush

“What they find it hard to grasp, apparently, is there are a sizable number of people (perhaps even voters) who care rather passionately about just a single issue or just a few issues.”

I find it hard to grasp that 23% of registered voters got our current president in office. 22% voted for Kerry and that leaves around 50% that didn’t vote at all.


28 posted on 07/06/2007 8:10:45 PM PDT by CJ Wolf
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To: BigTom85
I'd say I agree with him maybe on one out of 10. And that'd depend heavily on which 10 issues you pick.
29 posted on 07/06/2007 8:11:52 PM PDT by StarCMC (This country is not free by the pen but by the back,brains and bullets of a soldier. ~advertsng guy)
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To: pacelvi
the scariest thing about ron paul are his supporters. who are these nut cases?

True conservatives. Not Bush-bots or GOP water carriers. We believe in the constitution, especially the 2nd amendment. We believe that the federal budget should be cut BIG time. We believe in the elimination of the ATF and the Dept of Education. We also believe in getting rid of the Dept of Homeland Security- a totaly endless and disfunctional bureaucracy.... many lawmakers and bureaucrats in DC openly admit to this Dept being a mess and in total confusion.

Paul comes from one of the more conservative areas on the US... east Texas.. Victoria county and Galveston bay area. Galveston actually has their own social security system.. I believe that Galveston is also exempt from federal SS tax (I think).

You should read about his district.. it's a great area.

So now that I pointed ot some good things about Ron Paul, I am sure that you are going to come back with the generic bush-bot response of 'we cant cut and run!!!' or 'no surrender'... right, great... go take that nonsense over to the Hannity thread.. I'm sure there are plenty on there that will agree with you..

I await your response. Please type a thoughtful one.
30 posted on 07/06/2007 8:18:17 PM PDT by BigTom85 (Proud Gun Owner and Member of NRA)
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To: StarCMC
heres a few issues// go down the line. Let me know if you agree or diagree with him
RP is pro gun
RP wants to do away with the ATF
RP wants to do away with the IRS
RP wants to get rid of the Dept of Education
RP wants to build a fence and secure the border
RP wants to restore the constitution and eliminate DC Bureaucracy
RP wants out of Iraq (you will disagree here)
RP wants to end borrowing billions of $ from communist China
RP is strongly against bills loaded with 'pork'.
31 posted on 07/06/2007 8:23:57 PM PDT by BigTom85 (Proud Gun Owner and Member of NRA)
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To: BigTom85

Foreign aid often more harmful than helpful : Strongly Opposes topic 17

YES on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days: Strongly Favors topic 17

Strongly Opposes topic 19:
Drug use is immoral: enforce laws against it
(10 points on Social scale)

Legalize industrial hemp: Opposes topic 19
War on Drugs has abused Bill of Rights : Strongly Opposes topic 19
Legalize medical marijuana: Strongly Opposes topic 19
Rated A by VOTE-HEMP, indicating a pro-hemp voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 19
NO on subjecting federal employees to random drug tests: Strongly Opposes topic 19
NO on military border patrols to battle drugs & terrorism: Strongly Opposes topic 19

http://www.ontheissues.org/Ron_Paul.htm


He also votes strongly in favor of Arab issues over Israel. I have no interest in supporting someone who does that.


32 posted on 07/06/2007 8:36:09 PM PDT by StarCMC (This country is not free by the pen but by the back,brains and bullets of a soldier. ~advertsng guy)
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To: BigTom85
From the same link:

Ron Paul is a Moderate Libertarian.
Click here for explanation of political philosophy.
Click here for VoteMatch quiz.
So ya see, I don't think he's REALLY conservative. He may say that he is, but his voting record says otherwise.
33 posted on 07/06/2007 8:38:23 PM PDT by StarCMC (This country is not free by the pen but by the back,brains and bullets of a soldier. ~advertsng guy)
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To: StarCMC
Hes a constitutionalist.

Now answer my previous post.
34 posted on 07/06/2007 8:41:22 PM PDT by BigTom85 (Proud Gun Owner and Member of NRA)
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To: All
The Conservative Case Against Ron Paul By John Hawkins

Even though he's not one of the top tier contenders, I thought it might be worthwhile to go ahead and write a short, but sweet primer that will explain why so many Republicans have a big problem with Ron Paul. Enjoy!

#1) Ron Paul is a libertarian, not a conservative: I have nothing against libertarians. To the contrary, I like them and welcome them into the Republican Party. But, conservatives have even less interest in seeing a libertarian as the GOP's standard bearer than seeing a moderate as our party's nominee. In Paul's case, his voting record shows that he is the least conservative member of Congress running for President on the GOP side. So, although he is a small government guy, he very poorly represents conservative opinion on a wide variety of other important issues.


Republican presidential contender Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas., answers a question during the first republican presidential primary debate of the 2008 election at the Ronald Reagan Library on Thursday, May 3, 2007 in Simi Valley, Calif. (AP Photo/Kevork Djansezian)
Related Media:
Who was the winner of the debate?
VIDEO: Q-and-A: Winners, Surprises of GOP Debate
VIDEO: Inside the Debate Spin Room

#2) Ron Paul is one of the people spreading the North American Union conspiracy: If you're so inclined, you can click here for just one example of Paul talking up a mythical Bush administration merger of the U.S., Canada, and Mexico, but you're not missing much if you don't. Reputable conservatives shouldn't be spreading these crazy conspiracy theories and the last thing the GOP needs is a conspiracy crank as our nominee in 2008.

#3) Ron Paul encourages "truther" conspiracy nuts: Even though Ron Paul admits that he does not believe in a 9/11 government conspiracy, he has been flirting with the wackjobs in the "truther movement," like Alex Jones and the "Student Scholars for 9/11 Truth." Republican politicians should either ignore people like them or set them straight, not lend credence to their bizarre conspiracy theories by acting as if they may have some merit, which is what Ron Paul has done.

#4) Ron Paul's racial views: From the Houston Chronicle, Texas congressional candidate Ron Paul's 1992 political newsletter highlighted portrayals of blacks as inclined toward crime and lacking sense about top political issues.

Under the headline of "Terrorist Update," for instance, Paul reported on gang crime in Los Angeles and commented, "If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be."

Paul, a Republican obstetrician from Surfside, said Wednesday he opposes racism and that his written commentaries about blacks came in the context of "current events and statistical reports of the time."

..."Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal," Paul said.

...He added, "We don't think a child of 13 should be held responsible as a man of 23. That's true for most people, but black males age 13 who have been raised on the streets and who have joined criminal gangs are as big, strong, tough, scary and culpable as any adult and should be treated as such."

Paul also asserted that "complex embezzling" is conducted exclusively by non-blacks.

"What else do we need to know about the political establishment than that it refuses to discuss the crimes that terrify Americans on grounds that doing so is racist? Why isn't that true of complex embezzling, which is 100 percent white and Asian?" he wrote."

Ron Paul has since claimed that although these comments were in his newsletter, under his name, he didn't write them. Is he telling the truth? Who knows? Either way, those comments don't say much for Paul.

#5) A lot of Ron Paul's supporters are incredibly irritating: There are, without question, plenty of decent folks who support Ron Paul. However, for whatever reason, his supporters as a group are far more annoying than those of all the other candidates put together. It's like every spammer, truther, troll, and flake on the net got together under one banner to spam polls and try to annoy everyone into voting for Ron Paul (which is, I must admit, a novel strategy).

#6) Ron Paul is an isolationist: The last time the United States retreated to isolationism was after WW1 and the result was WW2. Since then, the world has become even more interconnected which makes Ron Paul's strategy of retreating behind the walls of Fortress America even more unworkable than it was back in the thirties.

#7) Ron Paul wants to immediately cut and run in Iraq: Even if you're an isolationist like Ron Paul, the reality is that our foreign policy isn't currently one of isolationism and certain allowances should be made to deal with that reality. Yet, Paul believes we should immediately retreat from Al-Qaeda in Iraq and let that entire nation collapse into genocide and civil war as a result. Maybe, just maybe, Paul's motives are better than those of liberals like Murtha and Kerry, who want to see us lose a war for political gain, but the catastrophic results would be exactly the same.


Republican presidential contender Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas., answers a question during the first republican presidential primary debate of the 2008 election at the Ronald Reagan Library on Thursday, May 3, 2007 in Simi Valley, Calif. (AP Photo/Kevork Djansezian)

#8)

In the single most repulsive moment of the entire Presidential race so far, Ron Paul excused Al-Qaeda's attack on America with this comment about 9/11:

 

"They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years."

 

 

In other words, America deserved to be attacked by Al-Qaeda.

This is the sort of facile comment you'd expect to hear from an America-hating left winger like Michael Moore or Noam Chomsky, not from a Republican running for President -- or from any Republican in office for that matter. If you want to truly realize how foolish that sort of thinking is, imagine what the reaction would be if we had bombed Egyptian or Indonesian civilians after 9/11 and then justified it by saying "We attacked them because those Muslims have been over here."

#9) Ron Paul is the single, least electable major candidate running for the presidency in either party: Libertarianism simply is not considered to be a mainstream political philosophy in the United States by most Americans. That's why the Libertarian candidate in 2004, Michael Badnarik, only pulled .3% of the vote. Even more notably, Ron Paul only pulled .47% of the vote when he ran at the top of the Libertarian ticket in 1988. Granted, Paul would do considerably better than that if he ran at the top of the Republican Party ticket, but it's hard to imagine his winning more than, say 35%, of the national vote and a state or two -- even if he were very lucky. In other words, having Ron Paul as the GOP nominee would absolutely guarantee the Democratic nominee a Reaganesque sweep in the election.

Summary: Is Ron Paul serious about small government, enforcing the Constitution, and enforcing the borders? Yes, and those are all admirable qualities. However, he also has a host of enormous flaws that makes him unqualified to be President and undesirable, even as a Republican Congressmen.

Mr. Hawkins is a professional blogger who runs Conservative Grapevine and Right Wing News. He also writes a weekly column for Townhall.com and consults for the Duncan Hunter campaign. http://townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=the_conservative_case_against_ron_paul&ns=JohnHawkins&dt=06/15/2007&page=2
35 posted on 07/06/2007 8:46:51 PM PDT by StarCMC (This country is not free by the pen but by the back,brains and bullets of a soldier. ~advertsng guy)
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To: VfB Stuttgart
I’m going to head over on my lunch break and see if I can meet him.

So did you get to see him at ABC?
36 posted on 07/07/2007 4:16:45 AM PDT by George W. Bush (Rudi: tough on terror, scared of Iowa)
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To: StarCMC
Hmm...so Duncan is gunning for some of that sweet Ron Paul support. Big deal.

Ron Paul and his legions of supporters will be in the race long after Duncan Hunter (and Tancredo and Huckabee and McStain) are forced to withdraw due to lack of funds.

Right now, we're just waiting them out.
37 posted on 07/07/2007 4:20:33 AM PDT by George W. Bush (Rudi: tough on terror, scared of Iowa)
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To: George W. Bush
Ron Paul and his legions of supporters will be in the race long after Duncan Hunter (and Tancredo and Huckabee and McStain) are forced to withdraw due to lack of funds.

If the man doesn't have enough "principles" to run as what he is, and instead pretends to be a Republican just to try to cash in, then his "principles" really aren't.

38 posted on 07/07/2007 2:00:18 PM PDT by StarCMC (This country is not free by the pen but by the back,brains and bullets of a soldier. ~advertsng guy)
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To: StarCMC
Ronald Reagan also did not comport to the Rockefeller Republicans. He ran as a conservative. As does Ron Paul.

The other candidates in the race, especially Rudy McRomney, represent the old Rockefeller Republicans trying to dress up in Reagan's old clothes and doing a bad job of it. They are statists, big-government Republicans.

Only Ron Paul represents smaller and less intrusive government, a free marke, meaningful states' rights, and a foreign policy that is beacon of hope to all and only an enemy to the enemies of liberty.
39 posted on 07/07/2007 3:34:38 PM PDT by George W. Bush (Rudi: tough on terror, scared of Iowa)
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To: George W. Bush
a foreign policy that is beacon of hope to all and only an enemy to the enemies of liberty

I think you forgot your /humor tag.

40 posted on 07/07/2007 3:53:06 PM PDT by StarCMC (This country is not free by the pen but by the back,brains and bullets of a soldier. ~advertsng guy)
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