Posted on 06/22/2007 12:43:45 PM PDT by Raymann
Why? Is it supposed to be a secret?
Well stated, Dave.
Whatever is not of faith is sin.
Doing right doesn’t guarantee a great mood, though doing wrong is very likely to bring about a lousy mood. Don’t dis the achievements of modern medicine, when used in a rightful way.
Being generous is inborn; being altruistic is a learned perversity.
No resemblance.
LAZARUS LONG
“Altruism” was a term that became popular during the eighteenth century, when religion was in eclipse and it was argued that you could construct a society by persuading people to behave reasonably. The more traditional term was morality, based in turn on religion.
The problem with altruism based on reason is that the motivations are not strong enough. Some people will behave reasonably. They will treat others well so they will be treated well. But plenty of others will act differently, and the system will break down. So, as Hobbes pointed out, in the state of selfish nature you need a strong monarchy and magistrates to keep order. Criminals are hanged or deported, and that encourages the others to stay out of trouble because they fear the consequences of disobedience.
The American system was better: a citizenry who were basically religious and who valued freedom enough to control themselves, rather than have a monarch to control them. As Toqueville noticed, American freedom relies on religion and morality to keep it working. Remove those, and you will descend into a police state.
Because of the inherent orneriness of most people, or original sin as Christians call it, there will always be at least some criminals and troublemakers. The question is, how many? Few enough to control with a reasonable number of police and courts, or enough to upset the politics of the state and make it impossible to have a free people? Experience shows that without religion, the only solution is overwhelming state power—not a satisfactory solution for people who have been bred in freedom.
But even for believers, when the original sin of the body's inbuilt demand for personal survival, from which all sins against others springs, I believe, there must be the enlightened use of the survival firmware.
I've seen, and am seeing, as much and more destructive results from attempts to be altruistic in the face of the foundation of original sinful nature - to survive at all costs - than I do from firm selfishness with respect for others' self-interest.
When working a business deal, I trust self-interest before I trust expressed motivations to do me good at the expense of the doer.
Relativity as it pertains to morality is nothing like relativity as it pertains to physics. Relativity in physics is that the law remains the same regardless of the relative viewpoint of the observer. Moral relativity means something completely backwards.
Yes, certainly, put in those terms. Economics is, and should be, driven by self interest—or by interest in providing for one’s family, or donating to charity. But donations should be free.
It is precisely the problem that “altruism” as it has appeared since the eighteenth century has no real underpinnings, except religion. So it can include all sorts of false or faulty versions. Or it can be used by Communist apparatchiks as a way of concealing their own drive for power.
Aristotle was able to define moral behavior reasonably by his theory of the virtues, but he was likely a religious man, who believed in a God who was First Mover. So it can be done by philosophy, but for most people it needs the appeal of religion to make it worth pursuing.
What you are criticizing is varieties of false, mistaken, delusional, or opportunistic altruisms, of which the welfare state is one example. I don’t think we disagree about that. But it’s part of why a purely rationalistic altruism won’t work, any more than purely rationalistic selfishness will work.
Deny self, take up the cross and follow Him.
I am always amazed at folks saying "If the Lord loves me I must love myself." That is straight out of Maslows heirchy of self actualization. Maslow, a Godless atheist, perverts the word of God to twist the meaning of scripture to his own end. To assert that I must first love myself before anyone else can love me is deceitful,....then to ascribe as ordered from Jesus Himself. So.....the logical conclusion is that the price paid by Jesus on the cross defines my value. I don't think so. Jesus love me, not because of me, but In Spite of me.....not because of who I am,....but because of who He is.....God is love, God is kind, God is longsuffering, God is just,....but God is a consumminng fire bringing vengence on those who know not God.
What saves a Christian in this context, or any context, is the shed blood of Jesus and his death, burial, and resurrection, conquering death, hell, the devil and the grave. No exceptions.
The problem is not that we do not love ourselves enough, as the New Agers teach, but that we love ourselves too much. Call it selfishness or self-idolotry. Confound yourselves if you wish, but no man ever yet hated his own flesh. Get a STrongs' Concordance and exegete "hating his own flesh". It is really very simple.
And yes, Jesus did say, "Love your neighbors as yourselves." Love the Lord God with all of your heart, mind, soul, body, and spirit." He also says, "Love not the World, neither the things in the world. If any man love the world the love of the father is not in him. For all that is of the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of life is of the world and the world passeth away, but the things thereof, but he doeth the will of God abitheth forever.
Correction accepted
C.S. Lewis would have had a few clarifications also
He argued strongly that there was within a person Desire.
It’s existence cannot be denied, it is a part of us.
Efforts to direct desire to the things of this earth,
such as possessions, errors of the flesh, greed, and pride,
invariably lead to injury, harm, and a deterioration of self.
In my life on Earth, I have a 100% correlation coefficient with this.
If, after a long path of attempting to find meaning to Desire,
one comes to the realization that directing
Desire to things that are HERE invariably leads to harm,
one eventually concludes, using Reason, that this thing,
which cannot be denied, Desire, has no meaningful target HERE,
and either one finds Despair,
or one finds that the meaningful target for Desire is NOT HERE
The only meaningful target for Desire in our hearts is, as Jesus is recorded to say;
Love the Lord God with all of your heart, mind, soul, body, and spirit.
And the meaningful use for Love in this Earthly frame is also recorded from Jesus;
Love your neighbors as yourselves.
We cannot learn to meaningfully love ourself or others
Or do so withour error,
without turning all of ourselves to the Lord God.
Once we are taught and cleansed from error,
An act requiring surrender of our damaged self,
Self Love, and Love of Others, are actually the same thing,
a projection of Our Lord’s Love for us
(my interpretation, be it as it may)
Scripture is not my strong suit
This awareness however leaves no place for believing
I am "Good" or "Worthy" of Love
From this standpoint Love is a free gift
Not a thing earned, deserved, or demanded,
Or expecting anything in return, except Love.
Yup, that works
The movie, “The Fountainhead,” based on the individualistic novel by Ayn Rand, will be shown on Turner Classic Movies at 11am Pacific / 2pm Eastern today, Saturday
Yeah, the book is great, the movie is only good at a sci-fi con at three a.m. with lots of beer and a whole room of drunk, smart people... |
"In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit."
-Ayn Rand-
It is still fun, but nobody talks like that.
You are correct. I am a Randian and a strict-constructionist...a pariah where ever I go, even here on FR when I express my surprise that Ron Paul is so vilified. :{)
I'm not a Gary Cooper fan, but he stars in two of my favorite movies..."Sgt. York" and "The Fountainhaed" (List also includes "The Quiet Man" and "Harold and Maude")
“Ayn Rand held a similar philosophy”
SAME philosophy. Dvorak is an Objectivist.
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