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Giuliani"s Unwelcome Birthday Guests
The New York Observer ^ | 5/29/07 | Azi Paybarah

Posted on 05/29/2007 3:13:05 PM PDT by SUSSA

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To: California Patriot; P-40
OK. It’s true that he had the wake-up call in ‘93.

And at another terrorist incident in '97 at the Empire State Building, he used the opportunity to call for strict gun control.

Another wake-up call--Rudy slept.

181 posted on 05/30/2007 4:47:55 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: California Patriot
Whatever the truth of this situation may be...

Since you're questioning others' research, may I ask:

Have you read the 9/11 Commission report in total?

Have you read the other resources available, i.e. the interviews conducted by the NY Times and reports on the transcripts of communications from that day?

What research have you performed, other than Rudy's talking points?


182 posted on 05/30/2007 4:51:17 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl
The 9/11 Report has plenty of things like this to say about Rudy:

The OEM’s headquarters was located at 7WTC. Some questioned locating it both so close to a previous terrorist target and on the 23rd floor of a build= ing (difficult to access should elevators become inoperable). There was no backup site.28

OR even this:

Nevertheless, the FDNY and NYPD each considered itself operationally autonomous.As of September 11, they were not prepared to comprehensively coordinate their efforts in responding to a major incident.The OEM had not overcome this problem.

But does not say anything like this about the response at the Pentagon:

While no emergency response is flawless, the response to the 9/11 terror= ist attack on the Pentagon was mainly a success for three reasons: first, the strong professional relationships and trust established among emergency responders; second, the adoption of the Incident Command System; and third, the pursuit of a regional approach to response. Many fire and police agencies that responded had extensive prior experience working together on regional events and training exercises. Indeed, at the time preparations were under way at many of these agencies to ensure public safety at the annual meetings of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank scheduled to be held later that month in Washington,D.C.19
183 posted on 05/30/2007 5:00:45 PM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: SUSSA

Obviously “the firefighters” — actually, their union leadership — could have a real impact on people’s opinions of Rudy. That doesn’t make them right.

Have I ever urged that we take Rudy’s, or his supporters’, let alone Oprah’s, word for anything? No.


184 posted on 05/30/2007 5:04:01 PM PDT by California Patriot ("That's not Charley the Tuna out there. It's Jaws." -- Richard Nixon)
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To: calcowgirl

Never said I’d researched this. I said I don’t have much faith in what union leaders say. Neither should anyone else on FReep.


185 posted on 05/30/2007 5:05:16 PM PDT by California Patriot ("That's not Charley the Tuna out there. It's Jaws." -- Richard Nixon)
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To: P-40

Reading that report was an eye opener for me. I remember reading those parts.


186 posted on 05/30/2007 5:44:47 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: California Patriot
Never said I’d researched this. I said I don’t have much faith in what union leaders say. Neither should anyone else on FReep.

Yet, had you read the thread, you would find that many of those who you continue to insult have indeed researched it. You continue to imply that they are only listening to union goons, or some such slur, and refuse to recognize that there is evidence to support the complaints--lots of it.

Support Rudy all you want, but please do it truthfully without insulting and trying to trash others.

187 posted on 05/30/2007 5:48:06 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl

I’m not supporting Rudy on this thread. I’ve also never endorsed him for the nomination, though I previously said some favorable things about him and thought he MIGHT be the guy. I’ve since soured on Rudy considerably.

But regardless of my view of the mayor, I’m urging great skepticism about “issues” that help the Rats. And about union leaders.


188 posted on 05/30/2007 5:55:28 PM PDT by California Patriot ("That's not Charley the Tuna out there. It's Jaws." -- Richard Nixon)
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To: calcowgirl

I have read some of the engineering reports that used the personal telephone, cell phone, and blackberry communications of those about to die to determine the exact time and sequence of each portion of the collapse of both towers. It is from that communication that mostly fills me with disgust towards Rudy and his ‘hero’ claims.


189 posted on 05/30/2007 5:57:40 PM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: P-40

The whole thing is so sad. I actually wouldn’t have had as harsh of words to say about Rudy and the planning team had it not been for their attitude after. They so enjoyed the limelight that arrogance took over where humility should reside. Many of them used 9/11 to create a myth about their great success and launch a business based on that myth (Rudy, Kerik, Von Essen, et al). To now stand center stage as a “hero” on the campaign trail is where my disgust hit its limits. That along with trying to push Bernard Kerik into the DHS slot.

The testimony from Rudy and Kerik was also disheartening. It seemed that neither would acknowledge mistakes clearly evidenced in hundreds of other places. Von Essen was a whole lot more honest when it came to that.


190 posted on 05/30/2007 6:37:34 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl

It is the attitudes afterwards that really got to me. I can tolerate the mistakes to some degree....but not the pompous attitudes that they were some sort of heroes. There are so many things I wish I had never read...and I will be glad when Rudy is just another footnote of history listed under pathetic fool.


191 posted on 05/30/2007 6:47:38 PM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: California Patriot

Mr. Riches isn’t union leadership. He’s just a member.

You suggest he’s wrong about about Rudy, implying that, as Oprah says, he’s the “hero of 9-11” and “America’s mayor”.

Well, the guys on the ground that day don’t agree. Just like some of the Sswift boat vets don’t agree with the Navy that Kerry is a hero.

Just because the firefighters are members of a union that backed Rudy and Bush twice each doesn’t make them liberals or wrong.


192 posted on 05/30/2007 8:34:25 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: Jake The Goose

The people who were ACTUALLY involved in 9/11, the first responders, don’t like Giuliani at all and it has nothing whatsoever to do with Hillary. It has to do with Giuliani.


193 posted on 06/03/2007 8:18:05 AM PDT by sheana
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To: SUSSA

Hubby was a member of the Firefighters Union for 33 yrs. Trust me the Union does not endorse the same candidates the rank and file would. In actuality, the firefighters don’t have much to say about it.
I have had many conversations with our Union Presidents about this.
It is all political with the Union bosses and they know they will usually get the most from Democratic candidates.
My argument has always been.....what good do increases in benefits and pay do when they take it back via higher taxes?
Our county is highly conservative and the Union always endorses the Dem on the ticket. I figure it is like that alot of places.


194 posted on 06/03/2007 8:27:22 AM PDT by sheana
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To: sheana

So are you saying the rank and file preferred Kerry over Bush?


195 posted on 06/03/2007 5:03:25 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: SUSSA

Guiliani was the only American leader who had a strong enough sense of right and wrong to rightly refuse to meet with mass murderer terrorist kingpin Yasser Arafat. Guiliani even had him expelled from a public event Arafat had crashed.

Around the same time, Hillary Clinton was sucking up to Yasser Arafat and was even photographed hugging and kissing Mrs. Arafat.

Vive la difference!

I am disturbed by the campaign by some Freepers against Guiliani, who is tough on terror.


196 posted on 06/04/2007 12:29:26 AM PDT by Seeing More Clearly Now (Mr Bush, heed your Bush Doctrine. Stop financing Palestinian Fatah's daily killing of Jews.)
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To: SUSSA

No, I said that the union’s endorsement has nothing to do with the rank and file.


197 posted on 06/04/2007 7:07:40 AM PDT by sheana
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To: BurtSB
These are Clinton Union Goons doing her dirty work.

I would'nt be surprised, but do you have anything to back that up? Or is it just a speculation? Not all civil servants are liberals, despite popular misconception.

198 posted on 06/04/2007 7:12:39 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Liberals are the crab grass in the lawn of life.)
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To: calcowgirl

You still are uninformed. This “International Association of Fire Fighters” endorsed Kerry in 2004. (Key word international)


199 posted on 06/04/2007 7:20:55 AM PDT by CJ Wolf
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To: SUSSA

If Rudy really takes money, even one cent, for speeches given about 9-11, he is of low character and does not deserve to hold the office of dog-catcher, much less president.


200 posted on 06/04/2007 7:55:21 AM PDT by The Oak
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