Posted on 05/16/2007 6:54:51 AM PDT by SirLinksalot
Oodles, OK. Different kinds as well. Not all of them are competing religious claims. You don’t attempt to resolve competing epistemological claims?
Jesus has warned us that there will be those in the judgment who'll say "Lord, Lord" and He'll respond that He never knew them. That is a revelation that is best heard on this side of eternity, when there is still an opportunity to ask God for "ears to hear."
But they are NOT equally grounded, ahayes. We have the objective testimony of scripture, the objective historicity of the person of Jesus, along with the subjective EXPERIENCE of the objective testimony of the Holy Spirit.
Now I will admit that my experiences of ALL these things is subjective, as is every experience of everything by everyone. In that sense, all knowledge is simply faith, and the quest for human "objectivity" is a fools errand in the first place. There ain't no such animal. We are left with a bunch of competing faith claims, and that's the ball game.
This does NOT reduce all faith claims to the same level of reliability. You have said that you are not a Christian so by definition you would not know the self authenticating communication by the Holy Spirit to those who belong to God. We have it. We know it, and we don't expect that to pass as something you can "observe" and evaluate. You can listen to us make the claims and decide if they are reasonable, but the confirmation of truth is outside your ken. That is not arrogant, it is just the way it is.
It is also true that men are in a headlong flight away from God and will deliberately obfuscate clear evidence to avoid confrontation with Him. Further, men know, but deliberately avoid clear and unmistakable evidence that would lead them to correct suppositions re: God's nature (personal and moral) and power. In fact, if the scriptures are correct, men will NOT be judged primarily for the "bad" stuff they do, but rather for the fact that they hate the evidences God has left for them in this world, whether it be in creation or in Scripture, and that in hating it, they flee from it and will lie to themselves rather than face it.
Ex-Christian. Been there, done that.
Other religions have their own Scriptures and histories. They have their own supposed objective testimony in addition to their own subjective experiences.
Doesn’t it bother you that God would refuse to speak to someone who truly believed in him and was quite dedicated?
I do not attempt to resolve countering religious claims because they are based upon subjective experiences which we have seen here cannot be shown to be superior to another. Other claims may be more open to evaluation.
I'm not aware of scientists lobbying for laws requiring churches to give equal time to evolution (or atheism, or whatever).
If, by "getting out of each other's hair," you mean stop writing books, that is just silly.
You'd have to give me an example, js1138.
And as far as belief goes, the demons also believe, and they tremble. (James)
You must be born again (John 3) - there is no other way.
Mormonism, Adventism, Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I see. So it isn’t religion per se that you have a problem with, but something called subjective that you don’t like. Is that right? Is it that whatever is subjective should be ignored, eradicated, rendered useless? What’s the point of all this subjective experience? I’m trying to understand what you real problem is. I first thought it was a problem competing claims, but that’s not unique to religion.
I have a problem having conversations with jerks with chips on their shoulders. It’s my cross I must bear. Goodbye.
Like Torquemada?
The public school system is a horse of a different color though because it is funded by taxpayers. Neither scientists nor theologians "own" the workspace. So it becomes a matterof law, politics, ideologies, yada yada.
And I'd very much like to avoid yet another sidebar, btw.
You seem to be adding to the requirements for salvation. Not only must you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead (Romans 10:9-10), but you must also have some sort of intense spiritual experience. That is gnosticism, and that is an unorthodox addition to soteriology.
How’s it feel to be a heretic? :-D
It bothers me, sometimes. A lover's silence, for example, can break the heart. When someone ignores me I might return the silence, but I can't make them disappear.
And it is not heresy, here it is:
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:9
Why thank you for insulting me once again. I hope you’re proud of your godliness in taking the fight to the unbelievers.
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