Posted on 05/11/2007 5:30:56 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
OK, what happens if people "just stop buying"? Is it only government that is impacted, or the economy as a whole?
BTW, what will appear on the sales reciept; will the reciept break out the tax as 23% (inclusive) or as 30% exclusive?
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
When the FairTaxers make the claim that their tax will be revenue neutral, stimulate the economy to unprecedented levels, reign in government spending, increase paychecks while lowering prices, and claim we'll all have more money to spend; they are saying it too good to be true.
I never claimed to be a real estate expert, just some one who has been around long enough and interested enough to make observations over time. Having a couple of contractors in the family doesn't hurt either, nor does a minimal understanding of human behavior.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
What is this 3000 retailer BS anyways. The city of Indianapolis has more than 3000 retailers alone. There are about 10 million self-employed people who the government would have to watch. Every business to business transaction has to be monitored to ensure that it is not a personal item. The government still has to monitor every transaction to know whether it is a taxable transaction. It is really a lot more difficult than it sound. Even 'used' items will have to be tracked as it could be a taxable transaction if taxes had not been previously paid on the item. If I buy a desk for my business, it will be sales tax free. If I resell it used, by law I will have to collect sales tax. You think it is an easy job to track every item like that?
And then trying to tax services is a real mess that no state has yet to figure out, although a few have tried.
Ah... the argument of last resort for the fairytaxer.
I have met the challenges, you're failure to comprehend is not my problem.
You are likely to be an IRS employee that is scared to death that talk of the FairTax is going to put you out on the pavement looking for your next job, a real job.
And here we have the argument of last resort repeated.
If I were an IRS employee (my business has nothing to do with taxes except that I pay them like everyone else), I would simply walk across the street and get a job with the new agency the FairTax creates.
Except the $500 prebate check throws everything into confusion again and hides the real cost of government. On a day to day basis, you will be hit with $5 here, $10 here, $20 here. Who is really going to keep track of every sale and know how much they paid. I know exactly what I pay in income tax in a given year, I have no idea how much I paid in sales tax.
I have asked Hostage three times whether he is paid by the fairtax organization. He has yet to answer. Come to think of it, he has yet to answer any question I have asked him.
their tax will be revenue neutral
Yep. By design.
stimulate the economy to unprecedented levels
Yep. American manufacturing will be revived because of the simple fact that American goods will be more competitive around the globe. The FairTax eliminates corporate income tax but goods exported will not be subject to the FairTax NRST, thus companies will have a windfall to sell their products on the world markets.
reign in government spending
Yep. People will see the NRST in their purchases and K Street won't be able to bribe Congress as easily. These and many other facts will cause enormous pressure on Congress to shun tax increases.
increase paychecks
Yep. By design.
lowering prices
Yep. Companies will no longer pay taxes at every point in the supply chain. Commodities will be cheaper and this will propagate up the supply chain just as it does now. Commodities are those things that are so prevalent among so many suppliers that it is impossible to establish an oligarchy and fix pricing. When commodity prices fall, the retail product price falls. Happens everyday. This is nothing new.
we'll all have more money to spend
Yep. Follows from above 'increase paychecks'.
These are facts not fantasies.
Your only point is that people are going to be mad when they see the level of taxation come out from the shadows. But we're going to compel the embedded Income taxes to come out before then, just watch and stay tuned. As more and more people gain awareness of what they are paying now, they will gladly vote for the FairTax as an alternative because they will know the game is up on K Street.
And besides the FairTax will come about as a result of enormous demographic change that is happening now. And that is something you can do nothing about.
Enjoy your Income tax job while it lasts. Like I said you got less than six years.
You don't get it. It doesn't matter whether or not an additional $60,000 is offset by an increase in the amount of a buyers take home pay (assumption; what the increase will be is not defined), the issue is paying (and financing - think interest) $60,000 more for a home, not because its bigger, in a better neighborhood, has more features, but just because its new and a new tax has gone into effect.
It's actually relative to the Federaly calculated poverty level- and the prebate is the same, in dollar amount, for every individual. Income has nothing to do with it.
Everybody gets back the tax paid on the first 12K/year of expenditures- so that someone living at the poverty level od 12K/year pays no tax.
Yes, the poverty level would then become the political football- but the manipulation of that rate would be ONE SINGLE FIGURE. Much easier to track and be informed about, than the thousands of targeted and convoluted details that we currently have no way of understanding.
Personally, I also would like to see the prebate idea dropped, but I'm willing to accept it. The net result is light years ahead of the current code, in terms of personal freedom and returning power back to the taxpayers.
It’s not BS. Once again you show you have not done your due diligence and you jump to conclusions without checking facts or performing calculations.
It’s on the FairTax website.
About 680 large retailers will account for about 80% of the NRST.
About 3000 retailers will account for about 95% of the NRST.
Check it out yourself.
Enforcement will be much more manageable under the FairTax. There is no debate on that issue, not even in Congress.
You defend the ‘Income’ tax by attacking the FairTax.
You pop up on every FairTax thread and make statements that are hyperbole at best.
That is the sign of someone that fears the FairTax. It can only point to someone that has a stake in the ‘Income’ tax system.
Dishonest or duped? Some of these guys are ripe for the con-man's picking.
No you don’t get it and in light of your errors it is now completely laughable to read previously your claim to be some sort of real estate expert.
Here are the facts:
1. People need shelter, many will seek to purchase a home.
2. Most people can’t afford to pay cash for a home leaving them to seek financing.
3. Financing is dependent on how much available income the purchaser has demonstrated.
4. The FairTax increases the amount of available income for the purchaser.
5. The amount of increase in available income to the purchaser under the FairTax more than offsets the additional monthly payment of including the NRST in the mortgage.
6. The home purchaser under the FairTax still qualifies for the mortgage with the NRST included because they have higher income.
And all this occurs independently of the FairTax lowering effect on the cost of materials and labor of new construction.
Your trysts at focusing on a home’s price are ridiculous. People get transferred all the time and get promotions with increases in pay. At their new site they purchase a more expensive home because they have an increase in pay.
Everyone who presently pays an Income tax is going to have more pay available under the FairTax. That translates directly into the ability to handle higher mortgage payments.
No taxes when I earned it. No taxes after I retire and spend it.
A Win-Win situation.
WOO HOOOOO!!! THANK YOU, FAIRY GODMOTHER!!!!
Now, in my real life, I have already paid tons of income taxes on my considerable post-tax savings and you now want to change the heavy tax burden in the coming years when I retire from the earners to the spender.
So, I will have carried the heavy tax burden when I was an employed earner and then I will carry the high tax burden AGAIN as an unemployed retiree when I spend my ALREADY TAXED savings in retirement.
A Lose-Lose situation.
Unless you Fair Tax guys figure out not to double-tax those of us who have already saved for our own retirement, your "tax what you spend" idea is going to be dead on arrival to our ears.
In regards to your "imbedded costs", every cost a business incurs while producing a product is tax deductable.
It's a wash.
Only profit is taxable and profit is not a cost of doing business.
According to Hostage, if the buyer can put the higher priced item on a credit card, it will make no difference because the buyers paycheck is bigger.
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