Rebate rule chills sales of solar

LA Times ^ | May 8, 2007 | Marc Lifsher

[calcowgirl]

Well, I wish I had bookmarked some of the various posts—but I didn’t.
I’ll see if I can recreate it one of these days (but not sure I’ll even remember it all!).

[P-40]

Alternative energy sources are only as good as the soundness of the plan used to implement them. This plan was not very well thought out.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Low $20's, with the thermal floor accounting for about a quarter of this sum. Keeping track of our power bills, we believe five years will reach payback.
The most important thing to determine is the experience of the installer. We identified three HVAC guys who advertised ground source systems in this part of Missouri and one was willing to give up names and phone #s of his customers. We went to see his installs and came away convinced that he knew what he was doing. The installer used a truck-mounted water well drilling rig to drill the wells, which were cased with pvc pipe. Each of the 4 wells produces one ton of AC/heat which matches our house size. The liquid in the wells is in a sealed system and circulates through a heat exchanger in a closet in the house (the furnace room.) The liquid comes out of the ground at 59 F. The thermal floor has its own sealed system of tubes laid down in the slab which is the main floor. The tubes are in bundles, so we can attenuate the temp in each room. There is a separate water heater tank to store this liquid in the closet. We tiled the entire lower level and can walk in sock feet in the winter.
As far as longevity, I have not heard of one of these units failing. We are into the 5th year and have had no service issues.

[saganite]

Thanks for getting back to me. This sounds far more effective than solar/wind/whatever. Guess it’s just not sexy enough for the greens. I remember hearing about these systems years ago. In fact my father in law who used to work for the SC parks system said they had installed something similar many years ago.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

There are a couple of ways to cut the costs if the price is too high. The four 200 foot wells can be eliminated by putting the loops in a pond. Just make sure your pond has water in it year round...
And you could skip the thermal floor option. I'm not sure what the brand name is but one of the new high school buildings near here is going with 20 or 30 wells to heat and cool a very large facility, so the technology is dependable and no longer considered exotic.
If you're planning to build, I recommend blown in cellulose insulation in the 2 X 6 exterior walls and three feet in the attic. Buy the best windows you can find (we bought Andersen low e, gas filled crank-out windows and Andersen patio doors which have a three point locking system and are really tight. Seal up all the openings and receptacles with good caulk or use the air tight variety for switches and 110 power. Avoid cutting into the ceiling sheet rock to put in lighting fixtures. Cut the smallest hole possible and mount lights below the sheet rock. Fill the voids with insulating material. If you use wet cellulose, skip the vapor barrier otherwise you could see some rot develop in the 2 X 6s. The exterior wind barrier material should be enough. We also used Certainteed cement/fiber siding which came painted with good Valspar paint. After the siding was up, the painter went over it with another coat via roller and brush. To date, there is not a nick or chip in this siding and it still looks new.
Another tip; recognize where the sun is on your building lot and design overhangs accordingly. We have western exposure and designed a big porch with large overhang on that side to keep the interior cool.

[P-40]

I recommend blown in cellulose insulation in the 2 X 6 exterior walls

Have you heard anything on using the foam insulation? I guess it would not have any settling problems. And 2 X 6 exteriors walls? I only see 2 X 4 down here.

Good point on orienting the house with the sun too. That makes such a difference in utilities and in making the house pleasant and bright.

[saganite]

I have a 40 year old house so my options are limited but over the years we’ve replaced the windows with custom made insulated double paned windows and new doors. That alone made a huge difference. The house is much tighter. We live in a mild climate so we open the house up in the morning and close everything up around 10 and it stays remarkably cool. Winters aren’t severe either so our energy bills aren’t outrageous.

I made one huge mistake though. I put a sun room on with a western face and it heats that area up a lot in the afternoon. That helps in the winter but in the summer it’s an energy sieve. Unfortunately, because of the way the home is built an Eastern facing sun room wasn’t possible. Win some, lose some.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

We looked at foam and ruled it out because of cost. Foam is superior to batts and only slightly better than blown in cellulose. I have heard of some shrink over the years but have not seen it myself. 2 X 6 is the only way to go and the cost is easily justified. We used composite 2 X 4 lumber inside for vertical components and used batts to insulate these walls for sound from one room to another. I believe batts are really next to worthless for keeping out cold on an exterior wall, btw. These composite 2 X 4s are really strong, but shouldn’t be used horizontally.

[SierraWasp]

Well, between Bill Jones and his getting rich on CA grown methanol (instead of whupping Barbara Boxer) and Arnold and his getting richer on CA subsidizing his business interests in solar and BOTH of ‘em being big John McCain supporters!!! Triple YUCK!!!

[P-40]

Interesting. I thought the 2 X 6 walls might be a 'northern thing' since they get that stuff called cold and need the extra insulation. Using the thicker boards here might help with keeping the mosquitoes out though...

Good idea on insulating the interior walls also. That must be a pleasant house to live in.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

2 X 6 is a good idea anywhere. You want to keep out the heat and humidity too... And we have plenty of that here in the Show Me.

[SierraWasp]

Hey look! There's only 10 dimes in a dollar plus time and interst! And then... some molecules are effecient energy souces and most are NOT!!!

Plus there are physical laws proven every day for centuries now, called the laws of thermodynamics! All these supposed alternatives are producing no more than wishing in one hand and spitting in the other and trying to decide which hand holds the answer!!!

Petroleum molecules and Uranium molecules rule the roost!!!

[P-40]

Petroleum molecules and Uranium molecules rule the roost!!

Let's see you get elected in California on that...

[SierraWasp]

As Walter Williams is fond of saying... "We're pushing back the frontiers of ignorance as fast as we can!" CA will just take a little longer!!!

Meanwhile, should we just sit here and delude one another on this site with dubious day dreams and wishful thinking just for mental exercise, or something? What???

[P-40]

You won’t be on this site when the power goes off. Walter Williams won’t be on the air when the power goes off. The people working on keeping the power on are just taking the parameters they are given and trying to work with them.

[SierraWasp]

Now look! You and I both know there are militant EnvironMentalist, yes, even GovernMental EnvironMentalists, whoa... Even Hollyweird EnvironMentalists that make "China Syndrome," and "Water World" movies that have successfully squeezed the "parameters" you blythely refer too so cavalierly.

It is the guilt-ridden goal of turning US back to pre-Columbian times to where we can do nothing as savages once again, but grind our nuts on the rocks!!!

If you spent as much mental energy on getting our politics righted again so we could do what is necessary, rather than tilt at alternative windmills, we might actually push back the frontiers of ignorance and stop the artificial "politics of envy" that demonizes the making of profit from useful power/energy production in a free market economy.

Even the French have figured this out in spite of their wine soaked society!!! Viva La France!!! (now that they've got a sort-of-a pro-American traditionalist conservative in power, maybe)

[P-40]

Did you know that if you wish in one hand and pee in the other only one hand runs the risk of getting anything in it? If the solutions the responsible parties come up with seem poorly informed to you that is only due to the people that put them in power being poorly informed to begin with. Californians are only getting what they ordered.

[SierraWasp]

It's not as haphazzard as you suggest! No, it's not a CONspiracy, but it is orchestration of the left's vast communication machine that pumps out movie and TV scripts that puts pee in both of Californian's hands, perpetually!

The CA electorial process cannot function without this machine and the stupid celebrity worship that it forsters. For years, the vast majority believes ONLY what they see on a screen with subliminal audio in the back ground.

Being totally obsessed with constant entertainment to fight boredom, they even fall asleep to the intonations of Art Bell and George Noory for further supportive indoctrination. This, of course, piled upon the foundational indoctrination of a government school education by extreme socialist liberals from K through 12!!!

Then to see somma this puss-like thinking oozing around here on FR, is just too much!!!

[P-40]

Then to see somma this puss-like thinking oozing around here on FR, is just too much!!!

Have you asked your doctor about diazepam?