Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy
Couldn't resist jumping in for a minute.
No, infants do not go to hell if they die. They go to heaven to be with the Lord.
Adults who have never heard of Jesus Christ are lost, and not through 'no fault of their own'. They are lost because of the same reason anyone else is lost: because they are sinners who cannot save themselves. God deals fairly and justly with everyone. He will not hold someone who never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ accountable for that gospel on their day of judgement. However, He will hold that person accountable for what knowledge and light he did have; what opportunities he had to act on that knowledge and light; and what actions that person actually took. It's laid out in Romans 2 for us. In other words, God holds people accountable for that which they do know.
Everyone, even the remotest pagan on the planet, has the light of (1) Creation, and (2) Conscience. Barring some mental handicap, every man is aware through Creation itself that a Higher Power exists. That is external revelation. Also, each man has a conscience, an inner guide to what is right or wrong (though it is not infallible). This is an internal witness to the fact that there is a moral order to the universe. Men instinctively know this. And every man, if he is honest, must admit that he has fallen short of even this standard many times - that is, he knows that in the course of his daily life he has often thought, said, and done things that contradict what he knows to be right and true. It is on this basis that God can rightly and justly condemn the man, for the man himself has demonstrated that he is a sinner, and moreover, that he has deliberately sinned, many times in his life.
Romans 10:13-15
for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
Were you baptized?
The was a BIG Freeper that lived in a shoe had too many children...
Well it often smells like one. LOL!
I’ll just say I’m over 6’.
My, just turned, 7 year old daughter is 4’2’’, 75 lbs. can do an overhand pull up, and wears 2.5 size shoe. Yep she’s gonna be big too.
These are not my words. You should address your comment to a Mr. D. Longo, who presumed to speak for me.
Do I believe unbaptized children go to hell? NO
Do I believe those who have not heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ go to hell for not confessing his name? NO
There isn't anything difficult about that. See, California, real easy. Why doesn't he tell me what church he goes to? That is kind of strange, don't you think?
(Indeed)
Note my 2,444 post...perhaps you can continue that line of convo w/Music_Code since you initiated it.
So, you are saying that through history, or at least from the time of Christ, there hasn’t been anyone who has died without the Gospel being preached to them? Now, if there have been those who have died without hearing the word of God, what is the condition of their salvation?
Into which church were you baptized? What is the official name of the church?
So many questions, so few gentle souls from whom to get discussion.
That reads like they didn't want anyone to interfere with slave ownership as it would disrupt governments that allowed slavery.
Sorry! I responded to the wrong post.
Why do I need to tell you what church I belong to when every Mormon already knows what church I belong to?
Need I spell it out? (Delf, you don't even need to "look away" for I am about to quote the Book of Mormon):
"And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth." (1 Nephi 14:10)
See? According to every True Believing Mormon, I belong to
(A) the COTD Church (The Church of the Devil)
(B) alias COTWOATE (Church of the Whore of All the Earth)...
(C) Also known as TAC according to 1 Nephi 13:34 (That Abominable Church). ["...the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that abominable church, which is the mothers of harlots..." (1 Nephi 13:34)
(D) As you can see, also thereby described by Mormons everywhere as the COTMOH (Church of the Mother of Harlots) [I'm sure (D) is the title of choice this season during "Mother's Day" time...but as long as they say it w/a "smiley" face, we won't be offended...:) ]
If you think that hurts the LDS "PR" image, then you can "tone it down" and refer to it as "The Church of the Dead Tree" [LDS are on record to have said "Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not Protestants, and the Church itself is not a Protestant church. The true Church is not a dead branch broken from a dead tree..."]
If, in case you want to "rev" it up again, as the "prophets" of US old did, you could call us "The Church of the Mormon Devil" [Brigham Young said that: "the Christian God is the Mormon's Devil..."--JoD, Vol. 5, p. 331]
Or, as John Taylor described every other church, it's "Hatched in Hell" Universal Fellowship (..."a perfect pack of onsense...the devil could not invest a better engine to spread his work" [than Christianity]--JoD, vol. 6, p. 167
Of course, according to more contemporary LDS apostles (like LDS apostle McConkie), we are about on the same par as "communism...Islam...Buddhism...Modern christianity in all its parts...Germany under Hitler, Russia under Stalin, and Italy under Mussolini." [McConkie said this in the context of answering his own question: "What is the church of the devil in our day, and where is the seat of her power?...It is all of the systems both Christian and non-Christian, that perverted the pure and perfect gospel..."] Source: The Millennial Messiah, pp. 54-55
I've left out other "niceties" of what we've been labeled (Protestant and Catholic alike).
One of my points is simply this: If 1 Nephi 14: 10 says there are only "two churches"--and the LDS is the Lamb church, then it's not like we've been given this "neutral" title. Nor are we divided in the eyes of Mormon. We are "one" church. As such what difference does it make what "devilish" denomination I am? Why do you want to research "hell" itself if we are "hatched" there?
Of course, we all know what the title of this thread is...wanna tell us who provoked whom?
Please see Post 2452 as my answer to this query.
My only question is: Which of the titles LDS gives us is your "fave" title of us?
Since you always want just "yes" or "no" answers, allow me the same privilege: You can answer A, B, C, D, or "Church of the Dead Tree" or "Church of the Mormon Devil" or "Hatched in Hell Universal Fellowship," or all even let you insert your own 19th century LDS prophetic quote!!!
[Delf, would you also "honor" us w/a response? How about any LDS rep or lurker?]
I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).
...
Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric.
...
Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.
This sort of accusatory rhetoric comes easily to Mormonism Apologists, not just the writer of the thread essay. Imagine how easily the DNC will exploit this barely hidden accusatory spirit claiming victimhood which has been so openly exhibited on this thread! The twisting, mischaracterizing, and whining of victimhood will be a major turnoff for conservatives, especially the conservatives associated with the slimed Evangelical orgs of this thread writer ... but the Mormonism Apologists really don't seem to care about that possibility so long as they can use the division to promote Mormonism's doctrines and proselytize with their 'sacred texts'.
This is the second long thread which reveals an agenda from Mormonism apologists. It is predictive.
It is Christ's death on Calvary's cross -- THAT AND THAT ALONE -- which atones for the sin of the entire human race. While His death for sin is universal in scope as far as atonement for sin, anyone who desires to be saved must appropriate (receive) that salvation on a personal basis; that is, salvation is not automatically conferred upon every man, woman, and child, simply because Jesus has paid the price for it with His death. You must personally believe in Him, confess that he is Lord, and receive Him as your savior. Believing in Jesus, in terms of Who He Is, means that intellectually you understand that He is God, as well as being the Son of Man (for so He called Himself). He is God the Son, the Second Person of the Triune Godhead. He is One with The Father. He is NOT "Lucifer's spirit-brother" or any other such nonsense. Jesus is not a created being, as Lucifer is. Jesus IS The Creator. He has always existed, since "before eternal times". In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God (John 1:1).
I wasn't asked this, but would say that their salvation comes the same way as Cornelius'. It was living in his Godfearing ways, prayers and his charity that drew God to him.
What is the cross but a "dead tree?"
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish, foolishness; but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God." (1 Cor. 1:18)
"But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world." (Gal. 6:14)
Therefore, I am not ashamed to be associated with The Church of the Dead Tree--for it is the gospel (the "good news"). The "good news" is not an elaborate "system" of every belief under the Mormon sun that a 12-year-old LDS "deacon" is supposed to know before he dies. It's not every law, commandment, ordinance, precept, etc. in the LDS "scriptures," it is simple trusting in the true God and the true Jesus Christ (John 17:3).
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; [LDS note: It doesn't say to "everyone that worketh" or "everyone that obeyeth"]; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Rom. 1:16)
Signed
Ex-Proud member of the Church of the Dead Tree, where the blood of my Savior died for my pride, for my flesh, for my guilt, for my actions done to "change" a Divine Mind who already knows everything about me and my heart, for my...[Well, let's just say the list gets long]
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