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April 12, 1861 The War Between The States Begins!
Civil War.com ^ | Unknown | Unknown

Posted on 04/12/2007 9:34:54 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861

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To: freedomfiter2
The GOP was fighting against the Constitution in the 1860s.

No, they were only fighting against the Democrats' misinterpretation of the Constitution.

The Constitution never spoke of slaves as property.

Despite John C. Calhoun's delusions, the Constitution never guaranteed slave states a control of the national government.

381 posted on 04/14/2007 5:28:37 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Non-Sequitur

Actually, My Confederate Ancestor bought 2500 Acres in North Texas on a handshake........


382 posted on 04/14/2007 5:46:51 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861 (Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy.......)
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To: Non-Sequitur

The recognition was their first duty, that is true, but I believe the CSA would have done the honorable thing....


383 posted on 04/14/2007 5:49:14 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861 (Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy.......)
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To: Non-Sequitur

In your opinion....of course.


384 posted on 04/14/2007 5:50:42 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861 (Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy.......)
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To: TexConfederate1861

“I believe the CSA would have done the honorable thing....”

In your opinoin....of course.


385 posted on 04/14/2007 6:20:30 AM PDT by since 1854 (http://grandoldpartisan.typepad.com)
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To: since 1854

That is true also.


386 posted on 04/14/2007 6:48:16 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861 (Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy.......)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

“Despite John C. Calhoun’s delusions, the Constitution never guaranteed slave states a control of the national government.”

Please show me where Calhoun EVER thought that it did.

Now, that being said, I know that he advocated AMENDING the Constitution to have two Presidents, a Northern & Southern, each with Veto power.............


387 posted on 04/14/2007 6:51:44 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861 (Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy.......)
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To: Non-Sequitur
From the decision in Ex Parte Merryman

DECISION.

Ex Parte.......................} Before the Chief Justice of the
.....................................} Supreme Court of the United
John Merryman.........} States at Chambers.

I added dots to preserve the spacing of the original. At Chambers rulings are rulings of the Justice as a Justice of the Supreme Court. The signature on the ruling is "R. B. Taney, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court"

388 posted on 04/14/2007 7:08:25 AM PDT by rustbucket (E pur si muove)
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To: rustbucket
I added dots to preserve the spacing of the original. At Chambers rulings are rulings of the Justice as a Justice of the Supreme Court. The signature on the ruling is "R. B. Taney, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court"

Go back and read the decision again. Better yet, read a book like "Lincoln and Chief Justice Taney: Slavery, Secession, and the President's War Powers" by James Simon for a short but more than adequate overview of the case. Chief Justice Taney was acting in his position as head of the Circuit Court that included Baltimore. His ruling was issued from that bench, not the Supreme Court bench. A single justice cannot speak for the entire court, and the entire court never took up the case.

389 posted on 04/14/2007 7:36:08 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Carl Brent Swisher, "Roger B. Taney," The MacMillan Company, 1936 at page 551 (emphasis mine):

"An audience of some two thousand people assembled on the following day to witness the outcome of the struggle between the Chief Justice and the military authorities. Leaving the Campbell home in the company of his grandson, Taney remarked that he might be imprisoned in Fort McHenry before night, but he was going to court to do his duty. As he took his place he announced that he acted alone rather than with Judge Giles because of the fact that he was sitting not as a member of the circuit court, but as Chief Justice of the United States. One reason for the distinction, undoubtedly, was the belief that it would lent added weight to the decision."

390 posted on 04/14/2007 8:00:58 AM PDT by rustbucket (E pur si muove)
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To: rustbucket; Non-Sequitur

“he announced” Roger Taney was a Democrat and was lying. He acted a a circuit court judge in the case.


391 posted on 04/14/2007 8:06:56 AM PDT by since 1854 (http://grandoldpartisan.typepad.com)
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To: since 1854

Sorry Partisan. I’ll take Taney’s word for what he was doing rather than your speculation.


392 posted on 04/14/2007 8:23:56 AM PDT by rustbucket (E pur si muove)
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To: rustbucket

The word of Democrats - Taney, Clinton, Obama, etc. — must be Gospel to you.


393 posted on 04/14/2007 8:35:41 AM PDT by since 1854 (http://grandoldpartisan.typepad.com)
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To: rustbucket
James F. Simon, "Lincoln and Chief Justice Taney: Slavery, Secession, and the President's War Powers," Simon and Schuster, 2006, page 191:

"After issuing his decree to Cadwalader on the 28th, Taney began writing the judicial opinion that he had promised to send to President Lincoln for immediate action. As was his habit, he reworked the opinion over several drafts to make his point with the utmost force and accuracy. When he was finished, Taney wrote at the top of the first page that the case was "Before the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States at Chambers," in an obvious effort to call attention to the authority of his office, though, in fact, he was acting in his capacity as a circuit court judge.

By this time Taney had been on the Supreme Court for almost 25 years and certainly knew which bench he was presiding from.

394 posted on 04/14/2007 9:15:01 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: TexConfederate1861
Actually, My Confederate Ancestor bought 2500 Acres in North Texas on a handshake........

Well then you would have no problems with the real estate deal I proposed? I'll be fair. I promise.

395 posted on 04/14/2007 9:16:28 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: TexConfederate1861
The recognition was their first duty, that is true, but I believe the CSA would have done the honorable thing....

I see no reason to believe that. To date they had seized whatever they wanted with no payment, they had walked away from responsibility for the debt without discussion, they were willing to go to war to acquire Sumter. If they didn't see any of those as dishonorable acts then why should we believe that they would have a sudden change of heart and pay for anything? Wouldn't an offer to do so be an admission that their earlier actions had been wrong?

396 posted on 04/14/2007 9:19:46 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: since 1854; Jim Robinson; Admin Moderator
This person now calling himself since 1854 was banned under the screen name Grand Old Partisan. Have his posting priveledges been restored? What gives?
397 posted on 04/14/2007 9:25:53 AM PDT by Godebert
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To: Non-Sequitur
And in that case who had suspended habeas corpus, Congress or the President?

General Wilkinson, the military commander in New Orleans. He blocked the delivery of Swartwout's writ from the territorial judge, then transfered Swartwout as a prisoner beyond the judge's jurisdiction. The Supreme Court ruled that Swartwout and Bollman had a right to this writ because its suspension was not constitutionally enacted. It is actually a very similar case to the 2004 Gitmo ruling, where the court found that habeas corpus had not been constitutionally suspended even though it was being denied.

398 posted on 04/14/2007 9:26:56 AM PDT by lqclamar ("That's it, Seth, you can't blame them. It's want of education. That's all it is.")
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To: Non-Sequitur
And in all those cases who had suspended habeas corpus, Congress or the President?

Different people at different times - mostly executive branch officials though.

1807 - General Wilkinson, commander in New Orleans, who blocked Swartwout's writ (found unconstitutional)
1866 - The military tribunal that tried Milligan (found unconstitutional)
1942 - The military tribunal and DoJ that blocked Quirin's petition for a writ (upheld for reason of expediency in a WWII emergency, but the Quirin case is almost universally considered to be bad case law today)
2004 - The Bush administration by detaining Hamdi (found unconstitutional without Congressional approval)
2006 - The Bush administration and Congress (found unconstitutional because habeas was not properly suspended in the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 for cases already pending and directed them to rectify this)
2006 - Congress, which suspended habeas corpus for enemy combattants at Gitmo in the Military Commissions Act. (found constitutional by the D.C. Court of appeals and affirmed by the Supreme Court in early 2007 in Boumediene v. Bush).

399 posted on 04/14/2007 9:45:12 AM PDT by lqclamar ("That's it, Seth, you can't blame them. It's want of education. That's all it is.")
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To: x
actually, Article IV does NOT prohibit secession.

care for a "do over"????

free dixie,sw

400 posted on 04/14/2007 10:13:01 AM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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