Free "Trade"

The Agonist ^ | April 7, 2007 | Ian Welsh

[A. Pole]

“The doctrine of comparative advantage . . . requires that capital and labor be relatively immobile. Or rather, that capital and labor be equally mobile. If people could just move wherever they wanted it might also work. Note that the last “free trade and capital flow” era - the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, also had massive immigration flows.”

“Now all of this assumes you have free trade anyway. People act as if the only things that matter are tariffs and subsidies, and that if you have neither, you have free trade.”

“Manipulating your currency is the modern form of trade subsidization. China spends hundreds of billions of dollars a year keeping their currency lower comapared to the dollar than it would be normally. Japan likewise engages in massive intervention”

Bump

[raybbr]

There is no such thing, nor will there ever be “free trade”.

[1rudeboy]

In light of the season, there is no such thing, nor will there ever be an Easter Bunny.

[raybbr]

I guess we are both right. Unless you would like to present me with an example of free trade.

[operation clinton cleanup]

Free trade has been hijacked by people who want free movement of money so that they can speculate wildly. Trading currencies is not "trade", it's speculation - gambling, and it undermines the utility of currencies as feedback mechanisms and has lead to financial panics, contagion, and increased income inequality in the core economies.

Period. Dot. Bingo!

[Clintonfatigued]

In the United States, Free Trade is not free, but comes at a high price for the average American.

[1rudeboy]

Basically, any transaction that occurs in the underground economy or black market is an example of "free trade." Say you take your kid to have her wisdom teeth removed, and you compensate the oral surgeon with a German Shepherd puppy from a recent litter at the ranch. Q.E.D.

Before you go galloping-off in search of strawmen to knock down, I am simply observing that "free trade" exists, and that you are unaware of it.

[1rudeboy]

The price has been terrible: low unemployment, record wealth, high standard-of-living . . . .

[calex59]

I have yet to have any dentist or orthodontist accept anything other than money. Your argument is idiotic(I know longer words but they don’t convey the meaning as well)in regards to free trade which is not define as bartering, which is what you are suggesting. The idea that NAFTA is really a free trade agreement is simply that: Idiotic.

[1rudeboy]

Anything you haven't seen or experienced yourself is "idiotic." Who says FReepers aren't open-minded? LOL

Care to take a guess at how many billions of dollars (est.) change hands yearly in the U.S. in transactions that are not regulated by any legal authority? And I'm not talking contraband, either.

[Utahrd]

Who should decide what you can buy when you can go to the store?

A) You?

B) Some unaccountable government bureaucrat who has just received NFL luxury box tickets from a corporation competing against lower priced products?

[hedgetrimmer]

Free trade has been hijacked by people who want free movement of money so that they can speculate wildly.

Now can look forward to the meltdown of our currency just like the stock market meltdown of 2000, when the "free traders" decide its time to cash out of the dollar.

[hedgetrimmer]

LOL

[raybbr]

Basically, any transaction that occurs in the underground economy or black market is an example of "free trade." Say you take your kid to have her wisdom teeth removed, and you compensate the oral surgeon with a German Shepherd puppy from a recent litter at the ranch. Q.E.D.

Does the orthodontist pay income tax? Do I pay property tax on the "ranch". Is the orthodontist governed by the regulations of the local health official? Does he pay taxes on his office? Is he buying electricity from a provider controlled by regulations? Assuming the puppy has seen a vet and I paid the vet money the same questions apply to the vet.

There is no such thing as free trade. This author has it right. The term free trade applies to paper transactions, which are completely controlled by the various governments involved and always will be. It's the lobbyist who get the laws bent to his favor that benefit not people like me, or, even you.

Before you go galloping-off in search of strawmen to knock down, I am simply observing that "free trade" exists, and that you are unaware of it.

If I trade a tomato that I grew on my land for an onion that you grew on your land it would still not be free trade. Property taxes obviate that claim.

[hedgetrimmer]

Basically, any transaction that occurs in the underground economy or black market is an example of "free trade."

LOL so "free trade" only exists as a criminal enterprise. LOLOL

[1rudeboy]

The assertion, oh dim one, was that “free trade” does not exist. I proved that it does. I wasn’t making a value judgement, nor should you . . . as far as your rhetorical point . . . worthless as usual.

[1rudeboy]

Check this thread out. All one has to do is find a blog, title the result “Free Trade,” and people flock to it in order to trumpet their economic ignorance, and engage in parlor-room sophistry.

[You Dirty Rats]

There is no such thing as free trade. This author has it right. The term free trade applies to paper transactions, which are completely controlled by the various governments involved and always will be. It's the lobbyist who get the laws bent to his favor that benefit not people like me, or, even you.

Actually free trade includes trading in goods and services as well as in paper. In fact, when the so-called "trade deficit" is condemned, it's because the deficit is in goods and services, not in total. In total by definition there cannot be a deficit, since in any trade there is an exchange.

[A. Pole]

LOL so "free trade" only exists as a criminal enterprise.

Even that after reaching significant size becomes regulated, by the organized crime. Human beings are social by nature and always get organized, one way or another.

Free Marketeers dream about seizing the highest form of social organization - the state to serve their group interests. In the theory by limiting state to protect wealth from domestic threats (courts, police and jails) and from foreign ones (the army). In practice they try to use state to suppress competition and to keep workers down.