Zogby: Romney Rockets! (NH poll shows Romney tied with McCain at 25%; Giuliani trails at 19%)

Zogby.com ^ | April 5, 2007 | John Zogby

[LIConFem]

I don’t trust any polls, especially this far out.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

I am on 56k dial up... (not DSL)

Maybe my computers are a lot better than most... I have lots of RAM...

[ZULU]

“Snake Pliskin”

????????????????????????????????

[Bernard]

the former war hero–turned senator

How do you become a "former war hero?" I did not realize there is an expiration date on such things.

[George W. Bush]

Woh. So how large are all those pics? I didn't total them up.

Of course, if the pics are already in your browser cache, you'd get no real delays at all.

[George W. Bush]

“Snake Pliskin” ????????????????????

From a 1981 movie, Escape From New York starring Kurt Russell. All of New York City had been converted into a walled maximum security prison.

Admittedly, the idea is not entirely bereft of a certain charm.

[Stentor]

I think Zogby has been in the trash can as far as predictions....they appear to lean to the left as far as their politics go

Is Damascus left or right.

[sevenbak]

He was a Bishop, he was also a Stake President (higher than Bishop)

He was also a Governor, and showed none of the usurping qualities that you label him with.

[George W. Bush]

Please don’t start it up again.

[sevenbak]

You are truly dizziing in your self absorbed portrayal of our beliefs.

You get the last word.

[sevenbak]

I would encourage the Mormons here to reconsider debating theology with the rest of us in detail on any political thread.

I would hardly call my exchange with FastCoyote a debate. What I would call it is a exposure of his rhetoric to be what it is, namely lies, falsehoods and deception.

Thanks for you concern, but for you to recommend we stay silent when such rubbage is thrown in the face of ever one on a political thread just doesn't cut it, sorry. I'd prefer to stay silent on the matter as well, but I will in moderation continue to defend when defamed. One cannot defend such filth without refuting scripturally

Cheers

[sevenbak]

If you want to debate Mormonism, start some threads in the Backroom. Stop giving our forum a black eye. FR is a home to all conservatives. Not just non-Mormon conservatives.

Well put, I have no desire to debate Mormonism, that's not why I joined FR. I find myself having to do it from time to time because of ad nauseum attacks.... I'm sure much to the chagrin of other FReepers.

This is a political venue and outlet. I'd like to keep it that way .

[George W. Bush]

Give fair warning. Then hit Abuse and flag Religion Moderator if they don’t stop.

I don’t want to be stuck reading debates over Mormon doctrine and beliefs for the next ten months. If Romney’s candidacy is a referendum on Mormon theology, he’ll lose. But that isn’t the campaign he’s running. So just follow his example. Let him be an ordinary presidential candidate, not some super-Mormon which you know he isn’t anyway.

Let’s keep the Front Page, the Editorial, and the Extended oriented toward news and editorials and opinion pieces. That is their purpose. Put the theology debates, the blogs and the vanities in the Backroom where they belong.

[sevenbak]

Fine by me, perhaps the mods need to orchestrate a way to move a post from one thread to another. As is is right now, unless someone responds to posts like coyotes, they just sit there like the festering cancers that they are.

Oh, and if I hit abuse every time this was done, the mods would get tired of it and I’d probably get revoked from FR due to obsessive “abuse” hitting.

I don’t think that is the answer either.

[ZULU]

Never saw the movie but sounds like a great idea.

[George W. Bush]

Fine by me, perhaps the mods need to orchestrate a way to move a post from one thread to another. As is is right now, unless someone responds to posts like coyotes, they just sit there like the festering cancers that they are.

Actually, I expect Religion Moderator to remove these kinds of posts and the vandalism done by Keyword Kowards and issue a warning to them. I don't want to see them banned. It's a small group and these posts are blatantly violating forum policy.

Oh, and if I hit abuse every time this was done, the mods would get tired of it and I’d probably get revoked from FR due to obsessive “abuse” hitting.

First, the Abuse form allows you to complain anonymously. Admittedly, my opinion is that it is often taken more seriously if you sign it and more so if you're a longtime member but that's just my opinion. But given that JimRob has provided the anonymous option, I believe that the regular moderators do not get to see who made the anonymous complaints unless JimRob warns them that some group is pulling gang-Abuse tactics. But JimRob and JohnRob, with their server access, can see it all, especially IP addresses. JimRob keeps it this way to help insure the impartiality of moderators. In JimRob we trust. And if we don't, why are we even bothering to post here? Let's take JimRob at his word on this. There is nothing to indicate he isn't dealing with us fairly and overseeing the Abuse button pretty well while keeping this a level playing field for us all.

Second, the moderators recently exposing the screennames of all those who had been posting nasty keywords on Reaganesque's thread which was about ugly keyword abuse on Romney threads (and other threads) should indicate to you that management doesn't want this discussion on the front pages of FR. They're not real fond of it even in the Backroom.

You do realize the potential that if Romney continues to run stronger and more threads like this are posted to FR, FreeRepublic could rise in the search engine rankings to the top of the search lists for anti-Mormon material? I don't think you want that. I don't. That is not FR's purpose.

I don’t think that is the answer either.

Behave like the rest of us do. Tolerate a few cracks, maybe give repeat offenders fair warning, then just hit Abuse on them or flag Religion Moderator or another moderator.

People who demand to be treated equally generally get more respect. You're not really entitled to let others beat you up and then have a fight and make a mess of the forum. This is not some unmoderated Usenet newsgroup. We have cops here. They're called moderators and it's their job to enforce management and forum policy.

If you fail to use Abuse to curb these attacks on Romney, if you allow Mormon beliefs or theology to become the focus of discussion of Romney here, you haven't done Romney much good. In fact, you're probably doing both him and the entire FreeRepublic forum harm.

You Mormons all claim to be just another Christian denomination generally. Fine, we won't bother to debate it on a political thread. But, since you are making the claim, then start acting like any other denomination, whose members do not tolerate much persistent doctrinal criticism on the news/political threads. And you can stand on your own two feet too, not wait until you're so victimized that others start feeling sorry for you and have to speak up to defend you. Have a little self-respect and demand some dignity for yourselves.

[sevenbak]

I really don’t see whay you are so worried about. You’ve spent more time and bandwisth arguing with Coyote that I have, plus, telling me what I can and can’t post to defned my faith is conterproductive to what FR should be about. If you find the abuse button an effective way deal with the anti mormons, then I say yah, use it please. I’ve done it in that past, but don’t want to make it a habit.

Cheers

[FastCoyote]

“I’m not suggesting you should not be allowed to discuss anything about Mormonism. But not on the ‘front page’ of our ‘newspaper’. It belongs in the ‘letters to the editor’, at best. And that’s the Smoky Backroom.”

Clever, censorship by declaring some speech to not be germane. So whether Romney believes himself a budding God or not is not germane.

Let’s see, Harry Reid has demonstrated a decided tendency to hold himself morally superior to others - in some part because of Mormon theological hubris. But it is off limits to ask whether Romney is susceptible to similar delusions.

And it is off limits to ask whether admittedly rather strange beliefs (like that American Indians are the offspring of a lost tribe of Jews who came here in 600 BC) might not subject a future president to ridicule on the world stage.

I would think you’d want Romney to address these questions now rather than when he is in the middle of the war in the middle east.

[FastCoyote]

“his sort of attack on Mormonism on a political thread, especially during a fundraiser? Why would Mormons want to donate to FR if they see this?”

Have you considered the harm you have caused by calling for censorship? Especially censorship of verifiable facts? Just because the fact that Joseph Smith was a crystal gazing occultist obsessed with Masonic rights and misinterpreting hieroglyphics while marrying 40 women is disturbing to your candidate, makes those things no less true.

If you can’t stand having these things see the light of day, that’s your problem.

In Nevada we just elected Gibbons as governor, he has been accused of molesting a cocktail waitress in a garage, and now the Wall Street Journal is playing a tap dance on his forehead over trips to Turkey with a no bid defense contractor who also employed his wife. I did vote for him, and have helped other Mormon candidates in the past.

Gibbons has been given a pass on many issues because he is considered a “clean Mormon”, and no doubt got many votes that way, displacing a truly decent guy named Bob Beers in the primary. While some of the charges against Gibbons are typically trumped up, some are due to the cognitive disconnect that occurs in many Mormons between a rigid theology with strange beliefs and a clash with the real world.

If those issues are not germane in the discussion of who should be president, I don’t know what issues are germane.

[FastCoyote]

“I would hardly call my exchange with FastCoyote a debate. What I would call it is a exposure of his rhetoric to be what it is, namely lies, falsehoods and deception.”

Okay, let’s take a look at what you said:

[The Church that Joseph Smith restored is the fullness of the Gospel, all things have been restored by Jesus Christ. In fact, not only did Joseph claim that he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ, but also John the Baptist, Peter, James, John, Moses, Elijah (mentioned above), and others. The Church is about the restitution of all things, with all the priesthood keys that God has ever bestowed upon man, being given to man again.]

So, you have exposed me as a complete liar by proposing that Joseph Smith spoke with more saints and Gods than Jesus himself.

Oh yeah, that’s gonna fly the same day pigs do. Thank the Gods Romney believes the same.