U.S. base in Iraq attacked with suicide lorry bombs

Ah, yes, can't make your point without resorting to insults. That's a reasonable way to have a dialogue, isn't it. You seem to think that I'm making a sweeping general statement about all the insurgents in Iraq when I'm only providing commentary on those that have randomly and blindly sprayed bullets in the general direction of my son's unit without hitting a damned thing, and then fleeing before his unit has any chance to return fire. Yeah, there's bravery for you. Any damned fool anywhere in the world can spray bullets from cover and then run away before any engagement can occur. And, again I point out, I'm not talking about all insurgents in country. Only those that have so far been encountered in the sector my son's unit patrols.

As far as the movie, Red Dawn, is concerned, in those scenes when the "kids" are running, they are firing back at the enemy while they are running to cover. You must be kidding if you think this movie and our discussion have something in common.

Oh, and just because these insurgents have an ideology where death is "loved" and life is not, doesn't mean they are "BRAVE". They've been taught nothing else since they were young children. Foolishness is not a sign of bravery. It is only foolishness. Throwing rocks at people with guns who in all likelihood will not fire upon them with their weapons is also not bravery. Again, nothing more than foolishness. You do not make your point anywhere in your comments. Not with insults; not with references to some inane movie that has nothing to do with our discussion, and not with your opinion regarding the individuals to which I have been refering to.

Your mistake, not mine. Keep yourself safe (if your still in the sandbox) as there are insurgents and terrorists in Iraq who demonstrate bravery (just not those I refer to).

Have a nice day.

when I'm only providing commentary on those that have randomly and blindly sprayed bullets in the general direction of my son's unit without hitting a damned thing, and then fleeing before his unit has any chance to return fire.

I am just so damn frustrated with your lack of English vocabulary and your inability to distinguish between lack of training and lack of courage that I have to repeat myself to you worse than I would to a child. Geeze...

I notice that those insurgents have the nerve to attack your son's unit even if they are ineffective.

If they are as cowardly as you say, then they must think your son's unit is pretty weak.

You see, I've been sticking up for your son's unit while you've unwittingly been saying that they are so weak that cowards will attack them.

Suicidal fanaticism is rarely encountered among cowards.

And suicidal fanaticism has not been the behavior demonstrated by those I've been discussing with you here in this forum. Nowhere have I commented that any of these "cowards" have used suicidal tactics in attacking my son's unit. Randonly spraying bullets in the general direction of U.S. troops and then running away before our troops can even determine the direction from which the fire came from takes a huge amount of bravery, doesn't it? /sarc. No, I'm not comforted by the fact that my son has so far only encountered those foolish enough to spray random fire. Even random fire has the potential to hit something eventually. I'm in no way underestimating the potential being faced here; I'm only commenting on the cowardly way in which these specific insurgents are acting. I'm also not making any sweeping general statement that this is how all insurgents behave, as that would be foolish and untrue. My son is well aware of how dangerous his sector of operation is, and will not underestimate the insurgents (his company commander would never allow that, and his platoon sargent is an Iraqi vet with a lot of experience). You and your friend should not confuse my comments as being a view that all the insurgents and terrorists operating in Iraq behave the same, as that just isn't true. If you're in the sandbox, please stay alert and safe. Have a nice day.

You're just amazing. You could take any topic and just travel off on some tangent, can't you? You seem to think that spraying random rounds in some general direction constitutes an "attack" against the opposing force. This is what street punks in this country do when fighting over their "territory" with the belief that doing so makes them "brave". What incoherent thought patterns you are employing here!!

These people don't care about death, and this is the reason they use to justify making these "attacks". The thought about how weak or strong a particular unit of the U.S. forces doesn't even enter into their thoughts. Just yours. Again, it doesn't take bravery to fire off random rounds in some general direction without any attempt to hit anything and then running away. If that's what you would term brave, then someone breaking into a home where a teenage girl is all alone and raping her must also be an act of bravery (this is occuring in Arizona). Please, I give up. Obviously you are much more intelligent than I (since I have no vocabulary). So, further dialogue is probably not necessary.

Your words were:

No, the insurgents who have attacked my son's unit are indeed cowards.

Now your words are:

You seem to think that spraying random rounds in some general direction constitutes an "attack" against the opposing force.

You are the one who said the insurgents attacked your son's unit.

And I think that it would be unanimous consensous that when one group initiates armed action against another it is called an attack.

Courage and cowardice are relative.

I saw an individual who freaked out during their first mortar attack in Anaconda, had to be sedated and airlifted out the next flight out. On the one hand he was brave enough to go to Iraq. On the other hand, he wasn't brave enough to stay.

I also saw many people who were brave enough to get to Iraq but never voluntarily get out of Baghdad or other base camps except for R&R or demobilization while others regularly traveled the country via convoy or aircraft. So were those who parked their butts cowards?

So there are insurgents who will shoot at a force that they recognize as better armed, better trained, better disciplined, better organized, better supplied, and better led. Yet they still attack. And you call them cowards because they don't attack very well and because their sense of self preservation tells them to hit and run instead of stand there and fight to their inevitable death?

So aside from taking your identification (your freeper handle) from someone else and living vicariously, what have you done courageously recently?

You see, bravery and cowardice are subjective.

You sit in the well protected US of A typing while insurgents initiate action against a superior force. When was the last time you even had the nerve to talk back to someone in public let alone pick a fight with someone you knew could kick your ass?

Your expectations are frightenly unrealistic if you really expect even the best trained insurgents to stick around from a prolonged firefight against a superior force.

And speaking of tangents, what does raping a girl have to do with insurgent cowardice?

I hope you don't embarrass your son too much.

Hey there you two. You do realize you both are on the same side? Please remember that. The MSM and Democrats are unnerving as it is without the best of the best here on FR fighting amongst each other over semantics.

SoldierDad you prefer the word coward. Eagle Eye you prefer untrained and therefore ineffective insurgent.

Me, I prefer to call them stupid ineffective POS who have no problem using women and children as decoys and or human shields. And because they would rather use me as a human shield instead of facing the bullets themselves, the word coward doesn't seem too inappropriate, in that particular instance.

Did I cover all bases? Are you both mad at me now? Hope not. Remember I'm on your side.

Chgogal,

No worries on my part. I'm not the one who began this battle over semantics, and then began hurling insults to the other person. Your definition suits me just fine. This other individual may have any view of these people he wishes to have. I stated my "opinion" as just that, and tried to end the discussion there. Whether they are untrained ineffective "soldiers" who are brave, or cowards attacking unarmed civillians, they all need to be dealt with by the U.S.'s finest. As far as this other individual, I hold no animosity towards him or any other person involved in this discussion. It appears, though, that position is not shared, much to my regret. I can only hope they have a good life and I wish them the best.

Thank you for your reminder that we are all on the same side here. Take care.

So aside from taking your identification (your freeper handle) from someone else and living vicariously, what have you done courageously recently?

I'm nearly 50 years of age, sir, and when I attempted to join the U.S. Army in order to go defend my country I was told thank you, but no thank you. I would go today, right this minute, if they would allow me to. I would place myself in front of the enemy (I served in the role of Security Police in the USAF in the 70's) and die defending what I love so much. Yes, it's easy to say it, and harder to do it. But, I would have no problem being in the Sandbox if I were but allowed to go. Do not preach to me about courage or bravery without having any knowledge of the one you're hurling insults at. I wish you Godspeed on your journey, and pray that you come through alive and intact. Other than that, I have no need for further communication on this issue. I've said my piece, and that will be that.

Hey BLOCKHEAD....

Poor training isn't cowardice!

Poor training can be cowardice.

It depends on the other evidence available

Are they targetting US soldiers?
A: Not usually, their primary target is the defenseless...when attacking US soldiers, they prefer remote detonators...spray and pray is, therefore, also evidence

The war in Iraq right now isn't about killing US soldiers.
No encounter with US soldiers is about accomplishing a militarily tactical or strategic goals.

They know that the only thing they need to accomplish is to spill blood, and it doesn't really matter whose it is...they need this blood to fuel the Anti-American Anti-War effort's Propaganda War against the United States of America.

Political pressure is their only hope. Without that political pressure, they have nothing. SO what's wrong with you? Why can't you recognize cowardice? Are these terrorists doing exactly what you would do in similar circumstances? Would you be willing to target men, women, and children who never would be part of any battle? Would you be willing to show films of attacks repeated ad nauseum? Would you be filming the slow beheading of anyone you can get your hands on? Would you be *actually* torturing people, to build up your own courage (not for any answers you needed...and not the psychological pressure waterboarding, forced nudity or panties on your head may or may not represent)? IF you were willing to do these things in their place...then I've no problem identifying you as a coward.

Oh hey...and if you find yourself firing on regular forces once in awhile...that doesn't change your label, but might add "stupid" as a preliminary modifier to "coward".

Are they on the same side?

Eagle Eye there seems to think that someone must be courageous to attack US soldiers...even when their every other activity identifies them as unmitigated cowards.

I'm willing to go so far as to state that these cowards, these terrorists, are sexual deviant cowards.

They want to die, and the reason they want to die is so they can have sex. A perverted kind of reverse necrophilia. There is no bravery when they do something stupid that might get them killed like attacking US soldiers.

However, there is a rich anti-American propaganda value in trying to persuade Americans that these terrorists are somehow "brave".

So are we really on the same side as Eagle Eye? I find no value, no bravery in these terrorists...period...even when they do fire on US soldiers.

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