“We Own the Night”--Amadou Diallo’s Deadly Encounter with New York City’s Street Crimes Unit

Cato Institute’s Project on Criminal Justice ^ | 3-31-2000 | Timothy Lynch

[SJackson]

Collateral damage is not the issue. Cops make mistakes. They are humans put in difficult life-threatening situations. You can't take the mayor to task for the mistakes of a police officer....Take a look at DeKalb County in Georgia. Same problems with the police there.

The point of the article isn't that individual officers make mistakes, rather that the arbitrary stop and frisk policy, aside from being unconstitutional, was a policy that invites mistakes. The policy is the responsibility of those who fostered it. Since the court decision applies only in New York, and since Rudy is on record that different states and localities need different gun laws, it's perfectly reasonable to ask if he'd support this in the other 49 states.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Forty-one shots were fired; 19 hit Diallo...

Bad shooting too.

[SJackson]

Fortunately he was in a doorwell, the 22 misses didn't hit anyone.

[bkepley]

So the occasional "collateral damage" is OK with you as long as there aren't too many and as long as the main objective is met?

Unless he pulled the trigger himself I doubt it will hurt him. New York without Giuliani was more oppressive than with him.

[rmlew]

The account of the Diallo shooting is incorrect: All four cops got out of their car, drew their pistols, and approached Diallo. The officers were not wearing uniforms; they wore shields on long necklaces. The police claim that they identified themselves and yelled to Diallo to “freeze.” Instead of remaining motionless, the police say Diallo took a few steps in the other direction and then made a sudden movement toward his waist. One officer thought he saw Diallo drawing a weapon and yelled “Gun!” to warn his fellow officers. Fearing for their safety, all four officers fired upon Diallo. Forty-one shots were fired; 19 hit Diallo, who was pronounced dead at the scene.

The officers found a wallet and a pager next to Diallo’s body, but no handgun. As it turned out, Diallo was not the serial rapist, nor was he armed. The entire incident lasted about two minutes.
1. Diallo did more than take a few steps. He stepped into a vestibule, partially concealing himself and then pulled an object from his pocket, quickly pointing it to the officers. This was an act of stupidity ranging on Darwin award territory. His actions were correctly seen as threatening.
2. The police did not all randomly open fire. One of the officers, startled by the percieved threat, slipped and fell backwards, firing his gun, just after another officer yelled "gun!"
The hallway had mirrors which reflected the innitial light from the discharge, and the officers thought they were being fired upon by an armed man, who they suspected was an armed serial rapist. They all returned fire.

Sad case, but clean kill.

[SJackson]

Certainly not murder, and short of that I'll let the courts make the call, which they did.

The point of the article is that under the questionable policy of stop and frisk, mistakes like this are inevitable.

[rmlew]

Actually the mistake had nothing to do with stop and frisk. Rather it was the result of
1. Having under cover cops look for a criminal.
2. A Darwin-Award level idiot no putting his hands up.

[sheik yerbouty]

Rudy followed "the broken window" theory. Stop some petty street crimes and theree fore less violent crime would result. Peop;e drunk, high, and stupid in the streets often produced violent consequences. Rudy severed that chain of events. Dinkins did nothing but watch tennis mayches..

[sheik yerbouty]

Rudy followed "the broken window" theory. Stop some petty street crimes and theree fore less violent crime would result. Peop;e drunk, high, and stupid in the streets often produced violent consequences. Rudy severed that chain of events. Dinkins did nothing but watch tennis mayches..

[TheMole]

This supposed "report" describes Diallo as "an immigrant from West Africa". Actually, he entered the U.S. illegally and thereafter avoided any attempt to apply for legal status. His street vendor activities were likewise devoid of any legal permits. Of course he paid no taxes. The "report" never mentions any of this, stating instead that he "immigrated from West Africa" as if he had followed some legal procedure and as if "West Africa" was a counntry.

[SJackson]

And that relates to the shooting how?

Are you suggesting he was stopped and frisked on suspicion of being an illegal vendor?

[SJackson]

Rudy followed "the broken window" theory.

Nothing wrong with that, but it's unrelated to random "stop and frisk" which is the topic of the article and what interests me. Public intoxication is a crime, the police have every reason to to stop drunks and druggies.

[SJackson]

Actually the mistake had nothing to do with stop and frisk. Rather it was the result of...1. Having under cover cops look for a criminal....2. A Darwin-Award level idiot no putting his hands up.

It does in the sense that without random "stop and frisk", it doesn't happen.

1--I wasn't on the jury so I can't determine whether the leos really thought they were apprehending a rapist. Rationales like that have been known to emerge after the fact.

2-Darwin award, yes. Still, had he been armed, faced with 4 guys in sweats accosting him, I know they said they were police, self-defence would have been a reasonable option.

With a cell-phone, no, though he's not the first to be shot for that, we had a similar incident in Chicago 7 or 8 years ago.

I'm opposed to random "stop and frisk", I recognize mistakes will happen.

Just as I recognize that if the Leos thought he was a rapist, this wasn't a stop and frisk incident at all.

[from occupied ga]

You can't take the mayor to task for the mistakes of a police officer

agree

Same problems with the police there.

Nope no innocents gunned down in DeKalb. In Atlanta, yes.

[NYRepublican72]

DeKalb is so damn corrupt it's not even funny. Vernon Jones should be locked away as the CEO of the DeKalb Correctional Facility, not the CEO of a county.

City of Atlanta likes to kill great grandma based on phoney informant information.

[from occupied ga]

DeKalb is so damn corrupt it's not even funny

Absolutely true; however, the DeKalb police haven't gunned down any innocent people there that I know of. Atlanta police do that sort of thing every now and then. A year or two ago, some undercover, out of uniform cop at Lenox murdered a black teenager he "thought was stealing a car" The kid tried to get away, or according to the officer (who oddly enough was the only surviving witness) tried to run him down. And it's always the same story - undercover, out of uniform cops (out of control cops) I hope those a$$holes who gunned down the old lady get serious jail time, and maybe that will teach the the rest of them that you can't just kill who you want just because you're a cop.

And as far as it being the mayor's fault in NY: Not directly, no. However, it was his policy that led to the event; so although none of it will stick to him, we should all take note of how Julie Annie views the roles of citizens and police.