“We Own the Night”--Amadou Diallo’s Deadly Encounter with New York City’s Street Crimes Unit

Cato Institute’s Project on Criminal Justice ^ | 3-31-2000 | Timothy Lynch

[SJackson]

Coming to a neighborhood near you. Since it's a topic on so many threads, I thought an assessment of effective crime control might be worth reading.

[bkepley]

I know what I saw before and after Guiliani in NYC and in my opinion attacking him for what he did there is a loser.

[NYRepublican72]

Oh please. You bring up one of a handful of incidents in NYC where the cops screwed up during Guliani's administration.

Do you know who was in an uproar during the Amadou saga? All of the radical black protagonists such as Jessee Jackson and Al Sharpton. You really don't want to allign yourself with those morons, do you?

[sheik yerbouty]

The rate of these shootings under Rudy was half of what it was under the Dinkster..

[deputac]

I think the line of "The Constitution is not a suicide pact" is appropriate here. There will always be instances where invidiual liberties and government intrustion/action will be at odds.

In actuality, the NYS Constituion is way more protective of its citizens in reference to the 4th Amendment than the US Constitution is today.

[SJackson]

Do you know who was in an uproar during the Amadou saga? All of the radical black protagonists such as Jessee Jackson and Al Sharpton. You really don't want to allign yourself with those morons, do you?

If random stop and frisk it the other side of the issue, sure, I'll side with the morons.

[SJackson]

In actuality, the NYS Constituion is way more protective of its citizens in reference to the 4th Amendment than the US Constitution is today.

Which is likely why they ruled stop and frisk unconstitutional.

[HitmanLV]

"Good cop and bad cop left for the day.  I'm a different kind of cop."

 

[NYRepublican72]

Cops are human. They screw up from time to time. Diallo's family won a pretty penny from them in a lawsuit.

You've got 40,000 officers in the NYPD. There's going to be an error rate.

[SJackson]

The rate of these shootings under Rudy was half of what it was under the Dinkster..

Was there a spurt in shootings, or crime in general, when the tactic was outlawed in early 2000?

[SJackson]

Cops are human. They screw up from time to time. Diallo's family won a pretty penny from them in a lawsuit...You've got 40,000 officers in the NYPD. There's going to be an error rate.

You're absolutely right, and I think murder represented overcharging. The issue here isn't aberrations, but policy. On other threads I'm assured not only of Rudy's crime fighting prowess, which I don't doubt, but his concern for civil liberties. He's not for gun control, those 30,000 carry permits revoked, an aberration too I suppose.

I've seen this policy defended on other threads.

While illegal in NY State, is this what I should look forward to on a national level, till the US Supreme Court weighs in?

Did crime spurt post March, 2000 when the ruling came down? If not, why is it an important tactic, one to be defended?

[deputac]

Problem is, with the probable cause standard, the liberal judges in NY don't know how to apply it.

I always remember that case from my Crim Law class where an "enlightened" judge threw out a probable cause stop (and subsequent arrest) when the male perp, walking down a high-crime area at night with a woman's purse in his hand and high-tailed it upon spotting the police, was deemed to have been illegally stopped in the first place. Because, all of the aforementioned factors did not add up to probable cause in NYC. /sarc

I think that case also featured that wonderful reasoning that African-American males had a reason to fear the police becuase of their history with the department, and thus running from the cops was not too odd for this guy (I can't remember for sure, it was a long time ago).

[deputac]

Forgot to also state that I have friends working in conjunction with the street crimes units. If the NYPD arrested and booked all the perps they came across on a nightly basis, you would see even higher arrest and conviction rates than you see now in NYC.

My tagline...

[SJackson]

I always remember that case from my Crim Law class where an "enlightened" judge threw out a probable cause stop (and subsequent arrest) when the male perp, walking down a high-crime area at night with a woman's purse in his hand and high-tailed it upon spotting the police, was deemed to have been illegally stopped in the first place. Because, all of the aforementioned factors did not add up to probable cause in NYC...Forgot to also state that I have friends working in conjunction with the street crimes units. If the NYPD arrested and booked all the perps they came across on a nightly basis, you would see even higher arrest and conviction rates than you see now in NYC.

The standard is reasonable, even lower than probable. I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge the judge made a mistake, but the solution isn't to throw all standards out the window. I certainly have no problem with higher arrests, presuming you're talking about arrests within the restraints of the law.

[deputac]

Ahhh, yes. Forgot to put the word reasonable in, when looking at the original post. Problem is, NY judges still put this scrutiny level too high, IMO.

As a believer in the law, I would always want the arrests to be within it. No matter how many criminals get off for breaking it.

[VaBthang4]

EVIL, JACKBOOTED, ANTI-DRUG, ANTI-TERRORIST, BIG GOVERNMENT COPS!!!

[VaBthang4]

"Cops are human."

NO THEY'RE NOT BRO! COPS SUCK! YOU CANT SMOKE WEED AROUND'EM, YOU CANT DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL AROUND THEM, THEY'RE LIKE NAZIS!

[from occupied ga]

I saw before and after Guiliani in NYC and in my opinion attacking him for what he did there is a loser.

So the occasional "collateral damage" is OK with you as long as there aren't too many and as long as the main objective is met?

[NYRepublican72]

Collateral damage is not the issue. Cops make mistakes. They are humans put in difficult life-threatening situations. You can't take the mayor to task for the mistakes of a police officer.

Take a look at DeKalb County in Georgia. Same problems with the police there.

[LibKill]

Another reason not to trust Rudy QUEER-MOUTH Ghouliani.