The great ADHD myth (Psychiatrist who identified ADD admits many may not be ill)

The Daily Mail (U.K.) ^ | March 9, 2007 | Jenny Hope

[xsmommy]

yes all of that. mindboggling. anyone who has been through the process of dealing with a child diagnosed with ADD and the attendant testing, expense etc. really loves hearing the ignorant expound on their poor parenting, laziness etc. my 12 yo daughter is ADD, not disruptive, not hyperactive, just has an inability to attend which combined with her learning disability causes her to be unable to learn if she isn't medicated. she is being raised by the same parents, held to the same rules in the home, and eating the same food as her siblings. yet they are high acheiving students and she is LD with ADD. let the ignorant expound about that which they know nothing.

[SoftballMominVA]

Thanks for offering several specific illustrations of good parenting from infancy. I like how these parents draw on their resources and common sense to solve problems and forestall problems. And as you noted in your post, these kids go on to school and their behaviors create a good working relationship with teachers and I would suppose these kids also do well in school and will continue to do well.

These parents in your church are being very good first teachers of their children and as such the kids benefit from learning how to be appropriate. The common thread in these situations is that the parents take control and the kids follow their lead. That's not abusive, that's good parenting.

I do hate to burst your bubble though, but good parents come from every spectrum of society, not just those that are in your church.

[wintertime]

I do hate to burst your bubble though, but good parents come from every spectrum of society, not just those that are in your church.
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This is a strawman! I did **not** say that good parents ONLY come from my church.

What am I supposed to do? Argue against a strawman of **your** creation?

Only nearly every thread, you will use strawman arguments.

Do you do use strawman arguments routinely in your personal and professional life? Doing this to your own children would be **very** disorienting to a young child, and might account for some of their learning and behavior difficulties. They are defenseless against this debating technique. I certainly hope that you are not doing this to your children in your classroom. It would be educational and emotional child abuse.

[8mmMauser]

Yes, lots of stories developed over the death of Rebecca.

Here is one about the doctor who prescribed the medicine.

Kifuji began treating Riley in August 2004 and diagnosed her with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and bipolar disorder. She prescribed the medications, including clonidine, a blood pressure drug for adults that is also sometimes given to children to reduce aggressiveness and help them sleep. Prosecutors allege that Riley's parents, Michael and Carolyn Riley, intentionally killed their daughter in December by giving her a clonidine overdose.

Psychiatrist takes paid leave after death of girl

Here is more:

The recent overdose death of 4-year-old, Rebecca Riley, in Massachusetts, demonstrates the dire need to educate the public about the practice of prescribing drugs for unapproved uses and the dangers of prescribing drugs like Zyprexa to children.

At the age of 2½, Rebecca was diagnosed with attention deficit disorder and bipolar disorder and was prescribed Zyprexa’s atypical cousin, Seroquel, along with Clonidine, an adult high blood pressure drug, and Depakote, a drug approved to treat adults with epilepsy. None of these drugs were approved for children and they were prescribed in a combination that has never been tested even on adults.

Activists take on Eli Lilly over off-label sale of Zyprexa

And here is an earlier article:

Lawyers for Carolyn and Michael Riley point to prescription records supplied by prosecutors and argue that those records show the Rileys did not have substantially more medication than had been prescribed for their 4-year-old daughter, Rebecca, who was found dead in their Hull home in December.

Boston lawyer Michael Bourbeau said that assuming Rebecca was actually given the number of pills prescribed for her between Aug. 16 and her death on Dec. 13, she was not being overdosed.

Girl’s pill numbers disputed: The prescriptions Carolyn Riley gave 4-year-old were very close to allowed amount, defense says

8mm

[wintertime]

Very sad.

[SoftballMominVA]

I'm struggling to see how you found anything in that post to attack. I acknowledged and agreed with you about what good parenting looks like. I recognized that these kids do well in school and are obviously well liked by teachers. I did however point out that other people in other situations also produce good children using similar techniques.

As would be true to form you take one statement and then over generalize it and turn it into a personal attack and an insinuation that I am an abusive teacher. Hey! a strawman created by you! What a surprise!

You must be spoiling for a fight if you are combative over that post!

[xsmommy]

i re-read your post and totally agree, there was nothing inflammatory in what you said. you make perfect sense, as do all your posts on this thread. my LD daughter attends a private LD school in Annandale, and my older kids are in private Catholic prep schools in DC. as i said earlier, we are raising my daughter the same way, feeding her the same food, and sent her to the same Catholic elementary school as her sibs attended, prior to diagnosis of her LD. She is on medication and that in combination with the LD teachers at her school, is how she is managing to learn and become a successful student.

[SoftballMominVA]

Do you do use strawman arguments routinely in your personal and professional life? Doing this to your own children would be **very** disorienting to a young child, and might account for some of their learning and behavior difficulties. They are defenseless against this debating technique. I certainly hope that you are not doing this to your children in your classroom. It would be educational and emotional child abuse.

BTW, if I were to take that statement and turn it around and personalize it to you and your personal and professional life, you would be running to the moderators screaming abuse. And that statement can be easily turned around to do just that. You need to be cognizant of what a personal attack looks like and be respectful of Jim Rob's forun. Please: NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts applies to all of us, including those that disagree with others.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread - reprimanding off.

[fella]

ping

[gracesdad]

"Are these kids in daycare and pre-schools? Are there moms working outside the home from early ages?"

Both of my children went to daycare. One was ADD and one wasn't. Both raised by the same parents, attended the same church, and taught in the same school system, often by the same teachers.

"Let's look at how children are raised by the members of our church."

1 & 2: Both seem to be pretty much common sense to me. We did both, except we generally do NOT expect the very youngest to stay queit all the way through church, especially an infant. I'm not real sure about the purpose of having infants in the church service.

"3) The mothers being teaching their children in infancy how to be quiet. Every day they line their children up on the sofa..."

Can't say as I ever did this, at least not every day.

"4) They establish a routine of morning, evening, and mealtime prayer and daily scripture reading. ( During these times the children are expected and encouraged to be quiet and non-disruptive.)"

More "organized" prayer than we do in our household but to each his own.

"4a)They have set meal times and no snacking between meals."

I can't agree with the necessity of this at all. Especially not if the snacks are healthy ones. What is the purpose of this?

"5) These children have regular nap times."

As did mine.

"Do we have ADHA in our congregation. Yes! It is **only** with older children who have parents who have converted to the religion..."

Hard to believe. But

"Ok,,,I am waiting for an ADHA/ADD defender to call me abusive!"

What is an ADD/ADHD defender? Do you think we're delusional because we believe ADD/ADHD is real in some kids (although I DO believe it's overdiagnosed). And I would never call you abusive, at least not based on this post.

[Gabz]

Do we have ADHA in our congregation. Yes! It is **only** with older children who have parents who have converted to the religion. It is amazing, but the behavior ( and school work) of these children improves the longer they are active in the church.

I find that VERY difficult to believe.

[SoftballMominVA]

What a heart-breaking story. That poor baby - and she was just a baby. How in the world does someone diagnose bi-polar in a 2 year old? And further, who in their right mind gives a child any medication that is not necessary to sustain life?

I have no idea whether the parents did anything illegal, but I have to question their wisdom, and I almost can't even do that. Their sorrow has to be more than I could imagine. But the saddest part is that a beautiful life was lost.

[wintertime]

i re-read your post and totally agree, there was nothing inflammatory in what you said.

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This has **nothing** to do with inflamatory. It has everything to do with being a strawman argument!

Softball moms said, "I do hate to burst your bubble though, but good parents come from every spectrum of society, not just those that are in your church."

The above is a strawman. Rational posters will see this immediately and I stand by the following:

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This is a strawman! I did **not** say that good parents ONLY come from my church.

What am I supposed to do? Argue against a strawman of **your** creation?

Only nearly every thread, you will use strawman arguments.

Do you do use strawman arguments routinely in your personal and professional life? Doing this to your own children would be **very** disorienting to a young child, and might account for some of their learning and behavior difficulties. They are defenseless against this debating technique. I certainly hope that you are not doing this to your children in your classroom. It would be educational and emotional child abuse.

[wintertime]

I find that VERY difficult to believe.

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I am not waiting for the "education industrial complex" to investigate it. It would mean less funding for the complex.

Ditto for the "medical/social-welfare-complex" as well.

Follow the money.

[SoftballMominVA]

Your comments to me (twice made)are abusive and out of place in this forum. While I am greatly tempted to do so, I will not stoop to your level and personalize your comments made to me to you and your life.

Please: NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts applies to each of us, including you and including me.

[IrishCatholic]

Bookmark for later review of unintended consequences and how they bite you in the....never mind. Not the way to phrase it on this one.

[Raycpa]

the point is that many doc's are over eager to pills as the answer and dont consider environment.

There are a number of other considerations. A proper diagnosis and treatment process should continually look to uncover co-existing and contributing factors. Some of them include sleep disorders, depression, food allergies. But it should never be looked at as an either/or equation. Many times things co-exist and improvement in one area may lessen overall symptoms or certain symptoms but it doesn't mean they have found the one true problem.

Too often, the professional is merely concerned about behavior. I believe that most ADHD children can be taught to behave even without medication. The issue for their ability to learn isn't changed yet the outward behavior seems normal.

[gracesdad]

Agreed this one is very sad, but also atypical. I don't see how anybody can diagnose ANY child with ADHD and bi-polar that young. I hesitate to blame tyhe parents because they've lost something very precious, but there's just no way a child should take these kinds of medications.

[wintertime]

Please: NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts applies to all of us, including those that disagree with others.
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Pointing out a strawman is **not** personal!
Pointing out a strawman is **not** an attack!

Strawman arguments **are** disorienting to young children! this is true whether they are your own children or students. This is a fact and **not** personal.

You are a teacher. This is a fact and **not** personal.

You use strawman arguments on nearly every thread. This is a fact and **not** personal.

To use strawman arguments in a class would be educational and emotional child abuse. This is fact and **not** personal.

I hope you are not doing this to your family or to your students! ( A fact!)

[Gabz]

The only "strawman" in what SBMV had to say is the one in your imagination.