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D.C. Circuit panel holds that the District of Columbia's gun control laws violate Second Amendment
How Appealing ^ | 9 March 2007 | Howard Bashman

Posted on 03/09/2007 1:04:59 PM PST by RKV

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To: Old Dirty Bastiat
Is this the first time a federal court has struck down a gun control law as unconstitutional under the second amendment?!

No, many federal district courts have done so. One even ruled that the National Firearms Act, as amended by the 1986 Gun Owners Protection Act, is unconstitutional, but not on second amendment grounds. (But their ruling was almost as good, saying that Congress has no power to *ban* anything. They can tax the snot out of it, but they can't ban it, unless, like printing your own money, their is delegated federal power involved.

It may however be the first time a Federal Appeals Court has struck down a gun control law based on second amendment considerations.

41 posted on 03/09/2007 4:37:37 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato
their is

there is.

Danged homonyms, my eyes know the difference, but my fingers don't seem to. :)

42 posted on 03/09/2007 4:44:43 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato
Since they didn't make the agreement in the first place, they can hardly have made it between them.
This is entirely incorrect.
Each state sent deligates for the specific purpose of modifying the articles of Confereraton.
What ended up happening was effectively a rewrite of government. The ratification process was the arrangement by which the State governments agreed with what their representatives developed. It is an agreement between the governments of the several States.
It is exactly an agreement between the several States.
I will conceed the point about rights vs powers. You are exactly correct.
43 posted on 03/09/2007 5:10:19 PM PST by GrandEagle
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To: El Gato
Since they didn't make the agreement in the first place, they can hardly have made it between them.
This is entirely incorrect.
Each state sent delegates for the specific purpose of modifying the articles of Confereraton.
What ended up happening was effectively a rewrite of government. The ratification process was the arrangement by which the State governments agreed with what their representatives developed. It is an agreement between the governments of the several States.
It is exactly an agreement between the several States.
I will concede the point about rights vs powers. You are exactly correct.
44 posted on 03/09/2007 5:10:34 PM PST by GrandEagle
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To: El Gato
P.S. It's good to run into you again my FRiend.
Our encounters are always good for an interesting discussion!
45 posted on 03/09/2007 5:14:22 PM PST by GrandEagle
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To: RKV
When do I get my HK MP5SD?

When you go buy it and pay the required tax and annual fee's.

46 posted on 03/09/2007 5:25:11 PM PST by org.whodat (Never let the facts get in the way of a good assumption.)
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To: org.whodat

Not in California you can't.


47 posted on 03/09/2007 5:56:57 PM PST by RKV ( He who has the guns, makes the rules.)
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To: GrandEagle
Here goes again... The Constitution is an agreement between the States.
D.C. is not a State - it is a territory that the US legislature has exclusive legislative jurisdiction over. Unless specifically called out, the Constitution does not apply to D.C. (ducking for cover)

Duck your head in shame for not understanding Article VI.
Our "supreme Law of the Land" applies everywhere in the USA & its territories, and ~all~ fed/state/local officials are sworn to 'support & defend'.

IE, - no legislators, fed/state/local, -- can ignore our Constitution in the writing or enforcing of law.

48 posted on 03/09/2007 6:40:33 PM PST by tpaine (" My most important function on the Supreme Court is to tell the majority to take a walk." -Scalia)
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To: tpaine
That is so far out of line...
I'll just say "Oh, OK".
49 posted on 03/09/2007 6:55:51 PM PST by GrandEagle
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To: tpaine
In 1950 the Organic Act of Guam was passed in occordance with Section 3, clause 2 of the US Constitution conferring US citizenship to the citizens of Guam. This law has them covered by all aspects of the US constitution called out as applying to Citizens of the United States. For the 50 some odd years prior to this - it did not.
the Organic Act of Guam
50 posted on 03/09/2007 7:43:32 PM PST by GrandEagle
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To: Vaquero
Do you agree with the decision to overturn the D.C. gun ban?

RESULTS


Yes 87 %
No 13 %

51 posted on 03/09/2007 7:51:17 PM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird (Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: tpaine
Article I, Section 8, clause 17 gives the Congress exclusive jurisdiction over the District, specifically:

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;"

Oddly enough, in researching the specifics, I found a reference to where the Surpreme Court ruled that the Bill of Rights does apply to D.C. citizens. Can't find any other information on this yet.
52 posted on 03/09/2007 8:09:48 PM PST by GrandEagle
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To: GrandEagle
D.C. is not a State - it is a territory that the US legislature has exclusive legislative jurisdiction over. Unless specifically called out, the Constitution does not apply to D.C. (ducking for cover)

You need to read & understand Article VI.
Our "supreme Law of the Land" applies everywhere in the USA & its territories, and ~all~ fed/state/local officials are sworn to 'support & defend' only constitutional laws.

IE, - legislators, whether fed/state/local, -- must write laws that comply with Constitutional principles.

The Constitution applies to D.C.

That is so far out of line... I'll just say "Oh, OK".

What is 'out of line' in making you aware that you are ignoring the supremacy clause of the Constitution?

Oddly enough, in researching the specifics, I found a reference to where the Surpreme Court ruled that the Bill of Rights does apply to D.C. citizens. Can't find any other information on this yet.

You really believe that citizens of the USA could be unprotected by our constitutions BOR's? -- Now that's "far out"..

53 posted on 03/09/2007 8:35:04 PM PST by tpaine (" My most important function on the Supreme Court is to tell the majority to take a walk." -Scalia)
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To: RKV

Maybe when Kalifornia joins the Union.


54 posted on 03/09/2007 8:38:12 PM PST by Nachoman (Error processing tagline. Abort, Fail, Retry?)
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To: RKV
I looked around a bit and couldn't find a good copy of the opinion in HTML, so I made my own.

For those who prefer html to pdf, see Parker v. D.C.  

Freepmail me with errors if you'd like. I'll be doing more cleanup on it tomorrow.

 Z
 

55 posted on 03/10/2007 12:17:30 AM PST by zeugma (MS Vista has detected your mouse has moved, Cancel or Allow?)
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To: El Gato

I wish we had more courts, including a Supreme Court, that limited congress to it's article 1, section 8 enumerated powers.


56 posted on 03/10/2007 5:27:00 AM PST by Old Dirty Bastiat
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To: zeugma

Thanks & well done zeugma. -- Bookmarked.

Great decision overall, but the DC court did make some disturbing remarks about gun >>>registration<<< below:

"-- The protections of the Second Amendment are subject to the same sort of reasonable restrictions that have been recognized as limiting, for instance, the First Amendment.
See Ward v. Rock Against Racism, 491 U.S. 781, 791 (1989)
("[G]overnment may impose reasonable restrictions on the time, place, or manner of protected speech . . . .").

Indeed, the right to keep and bear arms--which we have explained pre-existed, and therefore was preserved by, the Second Amendment--was subject to restrictions at common law. We take these to be the sort of reasonable regulations contemplated by the drafters of the Second Amendment. For instance, it is presumably reasonable "to prohibit the carrying of weapons when under the influence of intoxicating drink, or to a church, polling place, or public assembly, or in a manner calculated to inspire terror . . . ." State v. Kerner , 107 S.E. 222, 225 (N.C. 1921).
And as we have noted, the United States Supreme Court has observed that prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons does not offend the Second Amendment.
Robertson, 165 U.S. at 281-82.
Similarly, the Court also appears to have held that convicted felons may be deprived of their right to keep and bear arms. See Lewis v. United States, 445 U.S. 55, 65 n.8 (1980) (citing Miller,307 U.S. at 178).

These regulations promote the government's interest in public safety consistent with our common law tradition. Just as importantly, however, they do not impair the core conduct upon which the right was premised.

>>> Reasonable restrictions also might be thought consistent with a "well regulated Militia." The registration of firearms gives the government information as to how many people would be armed for militia service if called up. <<<<

Reasonable firearm proficiency testing would both promote public safety and produce better candidates for military service. Personal characteristics, such as insanity or felonious conduct, that make gun ownership dangerous to society also make someone unsuitable for service in the militia. Cf. D.C. Code § 49-401(excluding "idiots, lunatics, common drunkards, vagabonds, paupers, and persons convicted of any infamous crime" from militia duty).
On the other hand, it does not follow that a person who is unsuitable for militia service has no right to keep and bear arms. A physically disabled person, for instance, might not be able to participate in even the most rudimentary organized militia. But this person would still have the right to keep and bear arms, just as men over the age of forty-five and women would have that right, even though our nation has traditionally excluded them from membership in the militia. As we have explained, the right is broader than its civic purpose. --"


57 posted on 03/10/2007 6:42:54 AM PST by tpaine (" My most important function on the Supreme Court is to tell the majority to take a walk." -Scalia)
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To: GrandEagle
Each state sent deligates for the specific purpose of modifying the articles of Confereraton. What ended up happening was effectively a rewrite of government.

The delegates, who were chosen by the state legisltures exceeded their authority, by a long ways.

Many of them were however good lawyers, especially, including Gouverneur Morris, whose actually wrote much of the language. If they had been drawing up a contract between the states, they would not have said that "We the people" wrote the thing. Yes the states were a party to the agreement, through the state ratifying conventions, elected by the people of the state, not appointed by its government. The Constitution is an agreement between the Peoples of the several states, not between their governments.

Also it was not the state legislatures that ratified the Constitution, but rather state ratifying conventions, elected by the people of the state, not their legislatures.

58 posted on 03/10/2007 9:13:24 AM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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