Posted on 02/24/2007 10:03:44 AM PST by rhema
"baubau, one thing I have learned is not to argue fine points of grammar with those who learned English as a second language; you actually studied what I took for granted."
And I did study English.
My two obstacles to languages or anything I study/read are the filtering out of too much information and my poor retention span. Especially memory has been a real handicap ever since I was young boy.
Funny anecdote happened to me last week. Someone overheard me speak in Spanish and said he didn't know I spoke Spanish so well. I told him I'm fluent in four languages, to which he remarked, "Yes, you do speak many languages, but none of them well." LOL! And he was right.
Ciao!
"Tiger Woods, He.....; Alex Rodriguez, he...; Vanessa Williams, she.....
Oftentimes followed by a redundant parenthetical expression, such as: "my father, who is a great man,...."
If you ask yourself the question, "What does the laundry need?" the answer can be "Washing" or "to be washed." In the latter example, the infinitive is a verb construct that serves as a noun, nearly the same as the gerundized "washing."
If I am not too nosey, may I ask what your other 2 languages are?
HAHAHA! I love that "just because" thing. "Just because" becomes a nominative! I prefer "The fact that." Or "being" ... as long as it doesn't become "being as" or "being that."
her bun NEVER gushed? EVER? c'mon!
Neologisms. A whole 'nuther subject.
How about the tendency -- somewhat abated -- to verbify nouns? "[To] dialogue" is perhaps the most egregious example.
I did my time in the grammar war trenches. Language is dynamic; I gave up, knowing I would not be able to stop people from confusing count and non-count nouns, when to add a plural s to test or tourist, or how to punctuate an adverbial clause much less remember how to use the subjunctive. The current dynamic phase is a tidal wave.
I love listening to the president, often do, and I rarely catch him making a grammatical error. But then the president does not enjoy the protective canopy of a sympathetic press and broadcasting corps.
Chesterton also said that his chief objection to a quarrel is that it usually ends a good argument. But I am not really looking for either. You may have a good point.
"a strict old maid w/a bun who never gushed" from carolinamom, then "her bun NEVER gushed?"
At worst, a comma between "bun" and "who" might have clarified, but the "WHO" sufficed to make plain the referent was to the person, not the thing.
I'm just inquisitive about how language works and how its structural rules may be deciphered. IronJack had an interesting take on the subject,
The infinitive "to be washed" serves as a noun form, receiving the action of "needs." It isn't a true object of the transitive, but that's only because of the dual nature of the verb. If you ask yourself the question, "What does the laundry need?" the answer can be "Washing" or "to be washed." In the latter example, the infinitive is a verb construct that serves as a noun, nearly the same as the gerundized "washing."
but I need a little help, Jack, with the sentence I've italicized, specifically "isn't a true object of the transitive" and "dual nature of the verb." I'm having trouble tracking the distinction between the infinitive object and the gerund object.
It cried, "Help me! I'm stuck and I can't get up!"
***As a teacher, I'll respectfully disagree, kitkat. The meaning of "Me and my wife went to the show" is also clear. Just as students should know pronoun cases, I think they should also know the three moods of verbs: indicative, imperative, and subjunctive.***
I agree with you, Rhema. I didn't make my point clear, did I? Let me try again: Since there are so many OBVIOUS mistakes in grammar, such as putting the personal pronoun first, I would like to see teachers spending more time on the basics. At least then when one speaks or writes, the mistake is not as glaring.
I wish ALL teachers were given the time to teach indicative, imperative, and subjunctive verbs.
***Showing my age here, but I have always believed our spiral into semi-literacy began with our having abandoned sentence diagramming in school. It sharpened verbal skills and taught logic simutaneously, great exercize. ***
I taught all three of my children how to diagram their sentences. They all improved in their tests as a result. It is SO simple to teach diagramming. VISUAL AID.
When I asked one teacher whey it wasn't taught, she said, "Oh, that's SO old fashioned." Yeah, sure!
Oooooh, "impact" is the worst of those to me.
The only things I will allow to be spoken of as "impacted" are wisdom teeth. Everything else gets affected. (I also grind my teeth when I hear "impactful.")
In college, I had a roomate who left out every helping verb she possibly could. It drove me absolutely insane. I also have a friend who speaks of her daughter's fits as "come-aparts" For example : "She had a come-apart in the store today." It's all I can do to keep my mouth shut.
***I don't know when "irregardless" became a word, regardless, I hear it a lot.***
I suspect the grammarians gave up when President Eisenhower used the word, "irregardless," on T.V.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.