What would Rudy Do? (First of a continuing series)

2/18/2009 | dirtboy

[Fawn]

It is still early....maybe Duncan or some other Superstar will shine through.

[SJackson]

So he never created any gun laws? I thought he was a gun grabber. He used existing laws. As I pointed out in another thread....we have a loop hole here in florida that has allowed many convicted child molesters and other convicted felons to legally conceal and carry guns. Crist is now working to close that loophole. Is he a gun grabber too?

He was mayor, not Governor, or President, or a Judge so to my knowledge he didn't "create" law.

He did revoke the handgun permits of many formerly law abiding NYC residents, turning them into instant criminals unless the surrendered their handguns.

He did file a large civil suit against legal firearm manufacturers, which went no where, but was an attempt by the Mayor of NYC to "legislate" throughout the country.

He is supportive of ugly, aka assault, weapon bans, as well as handgun bans on a local and state level. That's irrelevant as Mayor, a significant issue as President.

As to Florida allowing felons and child molesters to posess firarms, in violation of federal and I'm sure state law, I don't believe you.

If felons posess firearms in Florida, and of course some do, that's a failure of law enforcement. And the greater the failure, imo the greater the need for citizens of Florida to have the means to protect themselves.

Rudy's position would simply be to ban firearms in florida.

[Fawn]

What a coincidence. I don't believe you either. Especially the part where you are saying what he would do if he were President. You psychic?
Here's my "proof":
Felons and Child Molesters own guns legally"

[Fawn]

Three major Florida law enforcement groups have joined a growing list of voices advocating changes to the state's gun laws to prevent criminals from legally carrying handguns.

Leaders of the Florida Sheriffs Association, the Florida Fraternal Order of Police, and the Florida Police Chiefs Association told the South Florida Sun-Sentinel this week that they will support efforts to tighten eligibility rules for concealed weapon licenses.

At the same time, the Regional Community Collaboration on Violence, a South Florida organization dedicated to reducing gun violence, said it will make recommendations to the Legislature for change.

The group is made up of police, prosecutors, politicians and parents of children slain by firearms in Broward and Miami-Dade counties.

"We're not waiting for more tragedies to happen," said Jeff Gorley, the organization's chairman.

The action follows a Sun-Sentinel investigation last month that found more than 1,400 Floridians possessed valid concealed weapon licenses even though they pleaded guilty or no contest to felonies. The crimes included assault, burglary, drug possession, sexual battery and manslaughter.

Hundreds of others did not have their firearm licenses suspended or revoked despite warrants for their arrests, domestic violence injunctions or misdemeanor convictions for reckless acts with guns.

Among the licensees: six registered sex offenders, a Tampa pizza deliveryman wanted for fatally shooting a 15-year-old over a stolen order of chicken wings, and a Pembroke Pines man who shot his girlfriend in the head as she cooked breakfast.

"You've got some horrendous examples in your story that should not be tolerated," said Leon County Sheriff Larry Campbell, president of the Florida Sheriffs Association.

Campbell said the association will push to toughen the law.

"I'm all for the people's right to carry a firearm," he said. "But I'm certainly not for the felon's right to carry one."

Other law enforcement chiefs agreed.

"It's time to make some adjustments," Miami-Dade Police Director Robert Parker said.

The National Rifle Association, which wields considerable influence in Tallahassee, vowed to oppose any revision that excludes people who have not been formally convicted.

"We do not participate in legislation that gratuitously takes away the rights of people, because when you begin taking away the rights of people that you don't like, that's the slippery slope," said Florida NRA lobbyist Marion P. Hammer.

Convicted felons are prohibited in Florida from possessing guns or gun licenses. The more than 1,400 people the Sun-Sentinel found with valid gun licenses entered guilty or no contest pleas and commonly served probation, but had convictions "withheld" from their records. Such plea agreements spare defendants from being labeled convicted felons, while moving cases faster through the court system.

"When people plead guilty or no contest in these cases frequently, very frequently, these are people who have not committed any crime, but their lawyer advises them to take a plea bargain," Hammer said.

Campbell called the distinction "strictly semantics."

"If you shot someone with a gun ... and pleaded guilty or nolo [no contest], you are a criminal," he said.

House Speaker Marco Rubio, R-West Miami, said this month that the Legislature could consider creating a special judicial category in which all people sentenced for certain crimes would forfeit the right to carry concealed weapons. "Our goal has to be to make sure that dangerous people don't have access to weapons," he said.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-pgunlicense16feb16,1,2549340.story

[SJackson]

What a coincidence. I don't believe you either. Especially the part where you are saying what he would do if he were President. You psychic? Here's my "proof":

Read your own article.

Unfortunately these are not felons individuals, they should be, but sentences were pled down or withheld.

Legal experts said judges typically withhold convictions of first-time offenders so they are not forever branded convicted felons. But the practice has extended to repeat offenders as courts grapple with clogged dockets.

"It's a quicker way to resolve cases," said Sen. Democratic Whip Dave Aronberg, of Greenacres, a former assistant attorney general.

That's not a loophole, it's lazy, inefficient law enforcement. The solution has nothing to do with guns. You should write your state representative and Governer and let him know how you feel. But it's not a federal or gun control problem.

It's worth noting unconvicted, unarmed child molesters are a risk too. They should be in jail, not walking the streets. Shame on Florida.

[Fawn]

So, you're in favor of withholding guns to these people? Taking them away?

[SJackson]

So, you're in favor of withholding guns to these people? Taking them away?

These people are people who may have been arrested for a crime, charged, but not convicted of a felony which would criminalize firearms ownership under federal law, or a crime which would bar it under state law.

So no, I'm not in favor of barring their right to own firearms because in the eyes of the judicial system they haven't done anything to warrant that.

The judges and prosecutors involved know full well what they're doing, and that's where the criticism should be aimed. As I noted earlier, the danger of an "unconvicted" child molester roaming the streets doesn't lie in the possibility he might buy a gun, rather the probability he might molest again.

[duckln]

Newt is going to run, he's running now.

The response has been strong, don't count him out.

You do know that Rudy also has not announced, but he's running?

[nopardons]

Rudy has done EVERYTHING; except make a FORMAL announcement; which is coming soon.

OTOH, not only has Newt done NOTHING ( no lining up of big money, political backing, forming teams ) he has been in PRIVATE talks with Rudy and Rudy's team.

If Newt DOES eventually enter the GOP presidential primary, he's not nearly as intelligent as people claim he is. He has a 64% negative rating and more than a 50% negative rating amongst GOP voters. HE CAN NOT WIN THE PRIMARY!

[duckln]

I'm not going to hammer your boy Rudy, or Mitt at this point. Our potential runners are all viable.

Gingrich is getting a lot of exposer, getting positive reviews from ALL quarters, speaks brilliantly, and surprising most with his common sense. There are hurdles even with me, but I don't count him out.

Newt has done every thing, except make a formal announcement, which is coming after labor day.

:^)

[SJackson]

If Newt DOES eventually enter the GOP presidential primary, he's not nearly as intelligent as people claim he is. He has a 64% negative rating and more than a 50% negative rating amongst GOP voters. HE CAN NOT WIN THE PRIMARY!

While I disagree, if Rudy wins, Newt's presence enhances that victory. There really isn't another viable conservative in the race, the onus is on Hunter to disprove that, and Thorin is absolutely right, Newt is running.

[nopardons]

The two of you can disagree all you care to....I stand by all of my unemotional, accurate facts about Newt. He will NOT run ( if he has any working brain cells ), nor will he be Rudy's VEEP, when Rudy wins the primary.

If you both feel that Hunter is the ONLY "Conservative running", he is a terrible person to hang that label on. Hunter is going nowhere and will continue to go nowhere.

[nopardons]

Newt has done NOTHING but talk and talk and talk. He isn't doing any fund raising, he isn't trying to round up backing, he has NO team/s anywhere, and by saying that 1) he wants to give the benefit of his "knowledge" to BOTH PARTIES 2) saying that he is waiting until September....which he has recently changed to OCTOBER, to even begin to "think about running", makes him look very foolish to a whole LOT of people who actually know and understand politics.

The now heavily front loaded primaries make this a very different kind of election cycle.

[supercat]

So, you're in favor of withholding guns to these people? Taking them away?

If someone has committed a crime that shows they would pose an unacceptable danger to society if allowed to acquire a gun, that person poses an unacceptable danger to society period. Trying to prevent such people from acquiring firearms will not effectively mitigate any danger they pose.

Efforts that are supposedly aimed at keeping guns away from criminals invariably harm mostly law-abiding citizens. Not just as a side effect, but as a design function.