Posted on 02/16/2007 5:56:14 AM PST by Alouette
Short, Concise, and TRUE!
There is a problem with your viewpoint, IMO. You ask for definitive proof that this was an act of jihad. If this were a singular or isolated case, that would be valid. But it is not.
When it is an occurrence in a lengthening procession of such occurrences, all of which are treated in the media as singular isolated instances, then anyone with the capability to recognize patterns should realize that this event may fit an emerging "sudden jihad syndrome" pattern. I say "may" because the evidence is still somewhat equivocal.
You are free to disagree, of course. Those who strictly attribute this man's actions to jihad (without the possibility that it was rooted elsewhere) are also free to disagree.
Here in the middle, I see compelling evidence that this man's murderous acts fit a pattern of "sudden johad syndrome". The lengths to which the media and authorities focus attention elsewhere is more of a confirmation, rather than a contradiction. In many cases, the shorter the time before the "it's not terrorism" announcement, the more suspicion there should be that it is, indeed, terrorism.
Just my $.02.
Suspect it reflects his own misery and sadness myself, but you are right, that may have been a factor in his decisison to do it then.
But why he picked that mall and not one of the larger malls is also interesting to speculate on. There is a major mall near the Salt Lake temple, and several others in the general area. Was this one the one just closest to his home?
Eh, we can find more definite quotes than that one. That one doesn't make a really strong case for the inherently murderous nature of Islam.
I have been listening to reports....and NO report says he was yelling "Allah Akbar" .....they do say he was saying "MF".....
Yup. They're avoiding telling other relevant TROP-related bits too. SOP for all these "Sudden Jihadi Syndrome" cases.
Another FR thread is analyzing the video, and people are agreeing that he's yelling "AA" not "MF".
I listened to it but I don't speak croation and I couldn't tell WTF he was "saying". I heard the cop identify himself and lots of shots....and the guy filming it freaking a bit.
And, I'll raise you a nickel....
I'm sorry, but there's just something missing at the gut level in this one.
For now, I don't see it to be any worse than the guy who shot up the Amish kids. His was DEFINITELY premeditated....
I'd put this guy, if he IS indeed a "jihadist", in the ranks with Jihad Johnny from California. Has it ever been determined whether or not he was a naturalized citizen...???
As far as I can tell, he had a pretty violent existence...but that appears to have VERY little to do with his "religion" and more to do with a total lack of effort to "fit in"....or support himself.
He's just one more kid messed up on drugs, looking for glory on the ten o'clock news.
His MO most seems to mimic that of the Canadian Shooter at teh college a while back....
???????
"But why he picked that mall and not one of the larger malls is also interesting to speculate on. There is a major mall near the Salt Lake temple, and several others in the general area. Was this one the one just closest to his home?"
I asked myself the same question when a similar incident in my state was planned but foiled by an undercover federal agent prior to the actual killing spree...
http://wcco.com/topstories/topstories_story_342121846.html
Rockford, IL is a quite populated area, but in Illinois there are malls much larger that he could've picked. My only thoughts in regards to his choice of venue were:
a. It was indeed the closest to his home, and most likely the one he was most familiar with, giving him some comfort in knowing somewhat the layout of the building and how it is policed.
b. He possibly felt he could get to kill a few more people before being brought down himself in a less guarded/policed local mall compared to say, a mall/store in downtown Chicago.
"I listened to it but I don't speak croation and I couldn't tell WTF he was "saying".
I do speak Serbo-Croatian, and I couldn't understand what he said either. All I understood were, like you, the cops and the guy filming. Is there anyone that can slow this audio down enough to understand what is being said for sure?
Thank you for responding.
I was going to ASK you, but didn't want to pry....
Why would a guy chant in a DIFFERENT language anyway....???
To me it's so tough to understand him that I can't honestly say he is even speaking Serbo-Croatian. I can't make any intelligible words from anything he's saying, in English or any other language. And if he is indeed chanting "Allah Akbar", would that not be the same in any language?
I didn't state that very well...
If he presumably spoke Serbo-Croation as a native, and learned English here....but dropped out of high school....
WHY would he chant in ARABIC...???
It's a cinch he wasn't any kind of "scholar".
In any event, it sounded like gibberish on the video...???
Do Serbs that follow the muslim beliefs study ARABIC...???
"Do Serbs that follow the muslim beliefs study ARABIC...???"
There aren't a heck of a lot of Muslim Serbs, but I would assume they would all say "Allah Akbar" the same as a Muslim from any other region would say it.
As for the video clip, I myself can't understand it...I'm now going to watch it a few more times. Threads in FR have people slowing the audio down to understand what's being said...one who did hear it stated:
"The police identified themselves at 1:36 into the clip. The shooter yelled 'allahu akbar' twice at 1:38. A shotgun blast is heard, then he yells 'allahu akbar' once more at 1:47."
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