Texas students sue to carry purses decorated with Confederate flag

The Kansas City Star ^ | February 9, 2007 | Martha Deller

[lentulusgracchus]

Your answer presupposes that somebody else other than the People has the power to make or unmake their Government.

So, my fascist friend, who owns the Government, who has the power to say to it, "You are my creature, and you please me no longer: Begone!"

Not the People, evidently. So, who?

Who owns America? Someone near and dear to your heart, by the way you argue their interest.

I challenged you with that question once before, and you refused to answer, but instead slithered away. So answer now. Who is the Sovereign over the United States of America and their Government?

[Non-Sequitur]

If the whole People revolutionize their Government, then they cannot be said to have "rebelled" against their creature.

What if the 'whole people' don't want to revolutionize their government? The people in North Carolina and Missouri voted secession down and got 'revolutionized' anyway. In Virginia about one-fifth the population voted against secession. Does that count as "the whole people" or is it "a whole mess 'o the people" or what? Was Virginia in rebellion or wasn't it?

The key is whether the entire People is involved or represented. In 1861, the Southern States withdrew from the Union by either constitutional conventions, or plebiscites ratifying ordinances of secession proposed in constitutional convention, or both. Arkansas is the exception: there, secession was proclaimed by the Arkansas legislature, which enactment fails the test of constitutionality and falls short of a Sovereign act. So Arkansas may be said legalistically to have "rebelled".

You might want to double check that. South Carolina seceded without constitutional convention or popular vote. The North Carolina legislature joined the rebellion in spite of the fact that the popular referendum had voted secession down. Likewise, a Missouri convention voted down secession and the governor tried to take the state out anyway. In Kentucky a convention with no legal standing whatsoever claimed they were empowered to take the state into rebellion. And then there's Virginia. The Virginia legislature voted secession contingent on the results of a popular referendum scheduled for late May. Apparently unwilling to wait for that the confederate congress admitted Virginia as a state two weeks before the referendum was held.

Insurrection is certified to the U.S. Congress, or to the President of the U.S., by either the legislature or by the governor of a State affected.

ROTFLMAO!!!! What insurrection is certified like that? Insurrection against the state? If the rebellion is against the federal government then don't you think that the federal government is capable of seeing it? Oh but no, in your world the central govenment has to have the state point it out! "Excuse me, Mr. President. But we have some folks here busy rebelling against you, you might want to do something about it." The whole idea is laughable. Washington didn't need the governor of Pennsylvania to tell him it was time for the troops during the Whiskey rebellion. He did it inspite of the governor's protest because it was his duty as President to defend the Constitution and combat rebellion. Lincoln was no different.

Salmon P. Chase's lies about it afterward notwithstanding.

Confederate myths to the contrary notwithstanding as well.

[Non-Sequitur]

So, my fascist friend, who owns the Government, who has the power to say to it, "You are my creature, and you please me no longer: Begone!"

I don't answer Commies. Sorry.

[x]

Washington called out troops against the Whiskey Rebellion. Adams called for the Alien and Sedition Acts. Jefferson suppressed Burr's conspiracy and violated rights to enforce his embargo. I'm not saying the Founders were tyrants, but they did have a strong sense of law and order that goes against your idea of them as radical libertarian.

Everyone from Andrew Jackson to James Buchanan, from James Madison to Henry Clay saw unilateral secession as unconstitutional, and radical. And for many Northerners a committment to slavery as a positive good to be expanded was likewise radical, and outside the spirit of the founding.

Lincoln extended slavery to cover all the States -- slavery to the owners of the Union. To-wit, Lincoln's political machine, and his political heirs.

That's your mantra, but you'd probably be complaining if the slavemasters had won. They weren't great libertarians, despite modern mythology.

And if you lived anywhere south of Missouri or Kentucky, it was a pretty straightforward military invasion by a tyrant-adventurer.

Virginia? Tennessee? Even Mississippi and Alabama had units in the Union Army. And if you admit that slaves weren't all lining up to join the Confederate forces, you can see something of a civil war betwen Black and White as well.

Jefferson Davis was a better gentleman than anyone on this board would ever try to be.

He was a bum -- pompous, pretentious, maybe a little prissy -- but still a bum.

[mac_truck]

Virginia? Tennessee? Even Mississippi and Alabama had units in the Union Army.

First Alabama Cavalry bump!

“Consider the loyal men in the South, especially as far south as Alabama, what they had to endure for their country. They were exposed and in danger every minute of their lives. They were shot sitting by their firesides or walking on the road; they had to leave their families to the abuse of the enemy; had to keep themselves closely concealed like the vermin in the woods until they could make escape through the lines, and then had to share the same hardships of soldiers life that the comrades of the North bore.” -P.D. Hall 1st Alabama Cavalry USV