Posted on 02/10/2007 12:32:11 PM PST by NapkinUser
It was for the economy... he let them out to do the jobs non-felons won't do. ;-)
The jury that heard the case disagrees with you.
Also, this report states otherwise.
Or, are ALL Gov. sources and juries liars and OBL shills?
Please give me one reference (page # and paragraph) in that Report that says Ramos lied in a report or destroyed evidence.
For the record, I do think Bush is wrong on this. I've seen posts here wishing Cheney would run, but realize the VP is remaining silent on this and other issues the White House is wrong on.
Some has already been admitted.
They lied when they tried to help Compean and Ramos cover up the shooting. They then were offered immunity from prosecution, and they testified in court about the incident. Now they are being fired because the immunity was only for prosecution, not for keeping their jobs. All the agents at the scene who knew there was a shooting but did not report it, and instead covered it up, are gone now.
One resigned, two were fired, and the other two who actually DID the shooting are in prison.
The supposedly pro-BP agent side is happy that the 3 other men lost their jobs over the incident, while at the same time think the two BP agents who actually SHOT their weapons should have their jobs back and get medals.
Sutton is a prosecutor, and can't "send people to jail", that's for a judge and a trial and a jury. (OK, the first night is on the police that do an arrest, then the judge for bail, then the jury for conviction).
It was not a car, it was a VAN.
The sheriff shot out the tire of the van, and it crashed.
The Van's crime? The driver ran a stop light. The Sheriff shot the passenger of a van because the van ran a stop light and then tried to get away.
Yes, the sheriff says the van tried to run him over. If so, it failed. He didn't shoot the tire while the van was coming TOWARD him. He shot the tire after the van was NOT coming toward him.
Oh, that last statement is not based on anything I read other than the fact he shot out a tire.
Logic, my friend: If a van was coming right at you, you can't shoot it's tires. You can shoot the windshield to take out the driver, or shoot the radiator hoping to kill the engine. You can't hit the tires, you can't even see them.
You CAN see the tires when the van is no longer heading TOWARD you, but is instead past you and trying to drive away. Then you can shoot the tires. But then you aren't in any danger, and shooting the tires is a violation of policy and an excessive use of force.
Which is what he was charged with. And if he was convicted, a jury of 12 peers agreed that he used excessive force. I don't know if the case has gone to trial yet.
The passenger could have been a nice american woman pregnant with twins, and they all could have died. The driver might have been a nice american father driving his wife to the emergency room. I suppose then we wouldn't be holding the sheriff up as a hero.
Unfortunately, it include most of the "conservative" talk show hosts, and a too-large number of elected republicans. I'm not talking about the sane ones who simply want to see the evidence, I'm talking about the ones who while CLAIMING they want to see the evidence, have no need for it becasue they already "know" the men should be pardoned and Bush impeached.
I say unfortunately because if the evidence (in the form of the court transcript) says what I suspect it will say, it will be clear to sane people that the agents had a fair trial and were rightly convicted -- and conservatives will look stupid again. Opponents will claim Republicans are for shooting illegals on sight.
I hope I never get to the point where someone presenting facts to support their position nauseates me.
Even if you feel the agents are innocent, Feinstein's comment is neither to the right of, or should be embraced by, any good conservative.
She said the agent's sentence was too long BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE VICTIM.
Conservatives believe people should be punished based on the severity of their CRIME, not the status of the victim. The same liberal thinking that leads Feinstein to say these men should have shorter prison terms because the victim was a drug dealer would say the sentences should be longer if the victim was gay.
All of the pardons were for people who had already FINISHED serving and were out of prison. The pardons wipe out the felony label, probably so they can take jobs that are not open to felons, or maybe just so they can vote again (that's the most common reason for pardons, is so people can once again be allowed to vote).
The one "commutation of sentence, was the exception, although the person had served over a decade.
Whose facts? What are you gonna say when they are released from prison?
Thank God?
Let's take a longer look at your comment. For weeks we've been hearing about how Sutton is "in the pocket" of the druglords. You imply that he is prejudiced against LEO's shooting illegals in this very comment. Yet the comment to which you responded refers to Suttons statistics regarding convictions and LEO's. And you dismiss the factual record as a "talking points?"
One way to avoid the issue, I suppose. But it's obvious.
Thank God?>>>
Really, you'd say that?
See, cuz I'm thinking you're on the side of those whose are truly lawless ...Maybe folks should just start growin their own LOL
Yes. I'd much rather they be found not guilty. I wish they were not guilty. I just happen to think they are guilty, based on the evidence we have been presented with to date.
The whole thing has so many rabbit trails to so much in just the appearance of impropriety. Until these questions are answered in my mind to prove otherwise, it really looks like there are some people in the border patrol whose fidelities do not lie with the American people. You have to wonder why anybody would care that got shot in the ass in the first place, but more than anything else, why the testimony of this crimminal counts more. I'd sure like to know the background of those jurors. And the three who said they were coerced aganisnt their conscience to vote guilty? What about them?
And I'm gonna ask another stupid question. If this crimminal has so many FAMILY CONNECTIONS HERE IN AMERICA (are they Americans?), why the heck isn't he over here legally in the U.S., working for an honest wage? Too, too many questions, questions that work against your conclusions my friend. I suspect that the border patrol may be corrupted by a few rogues, but it ain't these two (
Has the phrase "Stop, or I'll shoot!", become inoperative?
Apparently. And the whole concept of self defense has too. An unarmed drug dealer. What a crock of shit
If you read the DHS report, you will see that not only did Compean make several conflicting statements, his testimony at trial differed from Ramos's testimony at trial on the crucial question of the shootings themselves.
For example, Compean, who at times claimed he felt threatened, said he STOPPED shooting when he no longer felt he was in any danger. He said that after that point, Ramos ran past where he was STANDING, and shot the guy once.
Why would Ramos shoot the guy when Compean said the guy was no longer a threat? At trial Compean changed his story to say he was on his knees when he shot at him, not standing. Ramos said Compean was lying on the gound bleeding when Ramos shot at him.
Can you see why a an investigator, a prosecuter, and a jury might put more credence in the drug smuggler? His testimony matched the testimony of 3 other BP agents. The two charged agents couldn't even tell the same story.
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