'Lust in Space' Astronaut Lisa Nowak Returns to Texas After Being Released on Bail

Fox News ^ | February 07, 2007 | AP

[gogeo]

It's gotta be a man's fault...her ex, the astronaut, George Bush...

[fso301]

To actually get into position to kill someone, without making it completely obvious that you've done it, its best to have control over the environment...to pick your venue.

Agree. She could have whacked her while inside her car in the parking garage.

Once Shipman pulled her car out of the parking garage, Nowak certainly could have tailed her, and perhaps found an opportunity to kill Shipman without being seen and caught. However, all that was an unknown to Nowak.

I had an uncle who had a hunting lease on private land between OIA and Patrick AFB. My dad and I used to really enjoy going down there hunting as game was abundant and you really felt that you were "away from it all". That area is just a bunch of undeveloped woods , swamps and ranchland. Those roads late at night are absolutely desolate and are all four lane. Nowak would know all that since she had been in the area many times. If she couldn't take Shipman out in the parking garage, she would have known that five miles East of OIA would be the last street light for 30 miles.

If Nowak intended to capture, and torture, and finally kill Shipman, the best way to do it was to take control of Shipman and her car at the airport parking lot, where if Shipman could be quietly subdued...pepper spray in the face while contained in a car, which would greatly limit visibility to cameras and people's hearing away from the car...Nowak probably had her best opportunity right where she attempted to subdue Shipman.

That I agree with, I'm just not sure if killing Shipman was the final objective or a contingency.

[Al Simmons]

An old college picture. Why don't you scroll back and see her current photo a few pages back, dude. and then read my comment 222.

[Al Simmons]

"Can the military claim jurisdiction over this case? Since the accused is in the military, certainly. Though it means a bit different a thing than you might think. It just means they can choose to prosecute first. Military miscreants are sometimes prosecuted in BOTH the military and civilian courts."

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

Since this offense occured in civilian jurisdiction, they have 'first dibs' and would have to agree to waive jurisdiction to the military before the military could court-martial her. That doesn't look like its gonna happen, which is lucky for Nowak because a court-martial would mete out a far harsher sentence than anything she is likely to get here.

After her civilian conviction the military will convene an Administrative Board hearing to determine if she should be separated based on that conviction, and under what kinds of conditions (ie, does she get a UOTHC and lose all retirement benefits, or whether she can retire, although probably at a lower rank. Ultimately whatever the Board recommends is approved/disapproved by the Secretary of the Navy. So if she gets a sweet plea bargain that drops most of the heavy charges, there is a possibility she saves her retirement - but in that case she would certainly be retired in a lower rank than 0-6. Most likely to 0-5 as that was the last rank under which she served honorably). That process will take another year to work its way through after the civilians are done with her, so she'll be getting her military pay for a whil longer, either way....

P.S. I am a retired USAF JAG.

[Fitzcarraldo]

[Al Simmons]

"Is Oefelein married, too?"

Divorced in early 2005. His ex-inlaws just released a statement that Nowak had a lot to do with that and that Nowak "broke our daughters heart". So that's an indication they were having an affair...until Oefelein saw her getting wacky and dumped her for a younger, cuter chick...(my take)

[Fitzcarraldo]

Possibly Oefelein knows, met or has mutual friends that know Lisa's husband Richard and concluded it would be wrong to play any further role in the breakup of her family. Then Lisa embarked on a scorched-Earth policy after Oefelein's return from space (so as not to impact his mission unduly).

Is it possible that Shipman's visit to Houston was the first time she had seen Oefelein since he returned from space?

[Doc Savage]

The unceasing media hunger for this case is an embarassment. It seems obvious to me that this poor woman suffered a dissociation episode based on her recent sepaeration from her husband and her personal depression. In a psychotic, obsessive fantasy she literally lost touch with reality. I'm sure she's as confused as to how this happened as are other people.

I think making fun of her situation is in poor taste.

[Cecily]

Her daughter probably doesn't want to air the dirty laundry. Family and friends know what happened to cause the divorce, but it isn't really the public's business. We will probably hear more in any event during Lisa's trial, if she has one. She might agree to a plea deal.

[mewzilla]

I only care if NASA's trying to shut people up. And that better not be the case.

[Fitzcarraldo]

It seems obvious to me that this poor woman suffered a dissociation episode based on her recent sepaeration from her husband and her personal depression. In a psychotic, obsessive fantasy she literally lost touch with reality. I'm sure she's as confused as to how this happened as are other people.

She could the the proverbial "canary in the mine", a warning that deeper issues are involved in the Astronaut corps. That's what NASA wants to root out and identify.

[Constantine XIII]

Had the weirdest dream a couple of days ago.

I dreamed I had become an astronaut (which I AM working toward IRL) and had gone to my old high school to give a talk on the standard razamataz. So I go into the cafeteria and see the princpal and shake her hand. She asks who I am and when I say I'm an astronaut, she gets this horrified expression and says, "Are you CRAZY?"

Then I woke up.

I hope this nonsense doesn't end up hurting the rest of the space program. *sigh*

[the_devils_advocate_666]

Your career?

It's dead, Lisa.

I'm thinking Larry Flynt will be giving her a call...

[lepton]

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. Since this offense occured in civilian jurisdiction, they have 'first dibs' and would have to agree to waive jurisdiction to the military before the military could court-martial her.

If that's the ACTUAL rule, fine...but I've seen the fights between the military and a local prosecutor over who gets to take the first shot. All of the cases I've seen resulted in a negotiated agreement, with varying results.

In any case, I should have perhaps worded it better, since I simply meant that military and civilian jurisdiction are not exclusive in criminal matters involving military personnel, and that the military may prosecute any service member for any illegal/unlawful actions anywhere.

[Al Simmons]

" If that's the ACTUAL rule, fine...but I've seen the fights between the military and a local prosecutor over who gets to take the first shot. All of the cases I've seen resulted in a negotiated agreement, with varying results."

Comment: There are indeed 'fights', but if the civilians have jurisdiction because of where the crime was committed, the military has no way to prevent them from prosecuting. And as a practical matter, they do not try to court-martial someone at the same time the civilians are prosecuting the same offense.

"In any case, I should have perhaps worded it better, since I simply meant that military and civilian jurisdiction are not exclusive in criminal matters involving military personnel, and that the military may prosecute any service member for any illegal/unlawful actions anywhere."

Comment: That is correct. If you are active duty military, you can commit a crime on the moon and still be court-martialed.

[aShepard]

................."Astronaughtiness."..............

Astronut!

[Mad-Margaret]

Thanks for answering this! I raised it yesterday and I was hoping there was a JAG around who would know.

[Al Simmons]

Don't mention it. Ever hear the phrase that "possession is 9/10ths of the law"? Well, that sort of applies here too.

The civilians arrested her, so they have "possession of the ball", and the military can't practically do anything unless the civilians "hand the ball off" to them.

Man I wish I had thought of that analogy earlier!!!

[John W]

Astronaut takes leave to join girlfriend in wake of attack---

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0702090064feb09,1,1527956.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

[Paleo Conservative]

Thanks for answering this! I raised it yesterday and I was hoping there was a JAG around who would know.

Ping!