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$34.06 an Hour -- That's how much the average public school teachers makes. Is that "underpaid"?
The Wall Street Journal ^ | February 2, 2007 | Jay P. Greene and Marcus A. Winters

Posted on 02/02/2007 5:20:28 AM PST by Zakeet

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To: Publius Valerius

Some have a sweet deal, others don't. It really depends on where they are. I don't like all the complaining I hear teachers doing about salary, either. But not all teachers have these sweet deals. My husband teaches, albeit college. His subject matter changes constantly (classifications and nomenclature), so he doesn't assign a textbook which he feels are out of date by the time they're printed. He develops his own text through a database that he updates every semester. And distributes it free to students. I hope that he markets it soon, but his students have had a great deal for many years. He's as dedicated a professional as any you would find in any field. And he's not one of these people who "can't do" so he teaches. He "could do" what he teaches students to go out and do and make a lot more money than he ever will. But he wants to teach because he loves it. His primary complaint is the general lack of respect toward teachers. After reading these threads, I can't say that I blame him. He might be an exception, but I know a lot of the teachers where he teaches. Most of them are excellent.


121 posted on 02/02/2007 7:44:56 AM PST by twigs
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To: mysterio
You need to understand that these threads exist so the teacher haters can have a contest to see who hates teachers the most.

Its sort of like those innumerable lawyer bashing threads.

122 posted on 02/02/2007 7:45:36 AM PST by CharacterCounts
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To: Publius Valerius
Most public school teachers? Where do you get that? In the states I've lived in, a four year education degree gets you in the door--granted those with post-graduate degrees are paid more, but not significantly more. In my experience, I haven't seen post-grad degrees being a requirement.

In my state, you can start teaching after only a undergraduate degree, but within a certain amount of years you must obtain a master's degree in order to remain certified to teach. During those first years, teachers are not making $34/hr.

I agree that tenure rights for teachers should be limited, if not abolished, but I don't think the pay itself is out of line if you want quality educators. If you want teachers with high IQs you have to pay them enough to that it makes sense to choose teaching math to 25 12-years-old over become a pediatrician.

123 posted on 02/02/2007 7:48:55 AM PST by LWalk18
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To: twigs
I agree that good teachers do spend a lot of discretionary time on additional work. I'd like to point out that good professionals of any ilk spend a lot of discretionary time on additional work, whether that be continuing education, additional certifications, just plain keeping up with the next thing. I'm a network engineer - I'm paid approximately the same thing as a teacher, my benefits package is dependent upon the job and varies considerably, I must constantly read and study to stay up to date (or be unemployable) and my work requires long hours, not my option, if it breaks and its critical, I crawl out of bed and fix it. I might get a pat on the back, but I don't get additional compensation. All of that is part of doing the job (which I love) well. I know my family gets tired of seeing me with my nose in a CISCO manual.

I am not putting down teachers here. My children both spent time in public schools. The quality of the teachers who instructed them varied from abysmal to very good and one per child that was outstanding. Given the importance of the job, it is not so much about the dollars as about how to find teachers who love their work and do it well. More dollars is NOT an automatic fix.
124 posted on 02/02/2007 7:52:41 AM PST by Roses0508 (Democracy does not guarantee equality of conditions - it only guarantees equality of opportunity.)
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To: freedomfiter2

She makes right at $38,000 a year, before taxes, etc.

This is in Texas, and very rural, small 3A school district.


125 posted on 02/02/2007 7:55:13 AM PST by Ro_Thunder ("Other than ending SLAVERY, FASCISM, NAZISM and COMMUNISM, war has never solved anything")
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To: savedbygrace

Teachers have minor or no problem with the curriculum these days the state and feds dictate it. Most people did not go to school or went to one that is much different at the time of the founding of this country.
SO maybe I don't get your point, enlighten me.


126 posted on 02/02/2007 7:56:30 AM PST by A Strict Constructionist
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To: Roses0508

Excellent response! Yes, professionals put in extra hours, even if it is to keep caught up. I do think that some teachers hurt themselves by insisting that they get paid for all this. Professionals just do that. I also think that teachers get paid too much in some areas (relative to what other similary paid professionals get paid) and not enough in others.

This is the second thread in several days where people who do not know what they are talking about but think they do just criticize teachers. It drives me crazy. I'm the first to criticize them when I see issues that they need called on. But there has just been this oft-spoken belief that teachers only work the hours they are in front of a classroom and nothing could be further from the truth for most teachers.


127 posted on 02/02/2007 7:59:45 AM PST by twigs
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To: Publius Valerius
But $47.00 an hour in Detroit! Wow!

Hazardous duty pay

128 posted on 02/02/2007 8:02:29 AM PST by Smedley
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To: NY.SS-Bar9

You are delusional. Teachers do not just work, "worst case? 8:00 to 3:00" as you state. That is the BEST case. Those are the hours they are in school. But teachers are also expected to prepare tests, grade tests, meet with parents, etc. I would say 10 hours a day is average, or perhaps even below average. 12 hours a day, and quite a number of hours on the weekend is more typical!

But with all that said, the wage should be what the school is willing to pay, and what the teachers are willing to accept for the job.


129 posted on 02/02/2007 8:22:50 AM PST by Tatze (I'm in a state of taglinelessness!)
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To: Zakeet

It's not the salaries that are the busting budgets. It's the pensions and bennies...


130 posted on 02/02/2007 8:23:51 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: A Strict Constructionist
Teachers have minor or no problem with the curriculum these days the state and feds dictate it.

That's one problem right there. Teachers should have a problem with the curricula these days, because much of it isn't designed to teach basic knowledge and understanding, and the results, by and large, prove that point to be true.

Most people did not go to school or went to one that is much different at the time of the founding of this country.

I thought your original point was that educational failures were not the fault of teachers, but rather some problems or other at home. Since many children were taught at home during the 17th and 18th centuries, and most homeschooled children today don't have these educational failures that we see in public schools today, what's your point?

131 posted on 02/02/2007 8:27:13 AM PST by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: savedbygrace

The teachers I know do have a problem with the curriculum. As I said in another post, "It's the Politicians".

We no longer have spare the rod spoil the child we have touch the child and wait for the lawsuit. Public schools don't have any choice in which kids they have to teach. They have to take them as they come. We don't hear about the failures of home schooling as there are no standards and no reporting that I know of.

Some educational failures are the fault of teachers as many deaths can be blamed on doctors, planes crash because of pilots, and so on and so on. For example if Preachers were paid by their success rate on convincing people that abortion was wrong then we would most likely have to change their name to paupers.

I don't think that you can compare the 17th. and 18th. with the 20th. and 21st. century. This is like comparing apples to oranges. If you could read the Bible back then you were considered educated.


132 posted on 02/02/2007 8:50:47 AM PST by A Strict Constructionist
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To: A Strict Constructionist

First you tell me teachers have no problem, or only minor problems, with the curricula. Then you tell me they do have a problem with the curricula.

I'm not going to chase your positions around.


133 posted on 02/02/2007 9:12:19 AM PST by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: LWalk18
Why would anyone with a 120+ IQ choose to become an engineer, attorney, or doctor, if teachers are the best paid professionals around?

Doctors and lawyers can make a lot more than teachers. As for engineers, it's a good question; probably a fair number don't make 70K although a lot make that or more. It probably comes down to people following their interests rather than what they perceive as the easiest route to a degree.

Besides, the education school curriculum these days is insufferable for anyone who is not a committed socialist.

134 posted on 02/02/2007 9:18:21 AM PST by freespirited (Honk for disbarment of Mike Nifong.)
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To: mysterio
I don't believe that many expressing opinions on this thread hate teachers. I understand that you love and admire your parents and I'm sure that they have worked very hard and made a positive difference in the lives of countless children, but don't let that cloud your opinion about the subject of salary. This article clearly indicates that teachers make a decent living, when everything that we hear day-in and day-out would indicate otherwise.

From your post I could make the assumption that you hate the self-employed in this country who are able to FReep whenever they please during the day and night ... but that would probably be incorrect.

135 posted on 02/02/2007 9:24:50 AM PST by JustaDumbBlonde
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To: Zakeet

I didn't read the article, but does the hourly rate take into account the amount of time teachers spend preparing lessons and grading? My wife started teaching last year (high school), and spends, on average, 2 hours every night and about 6 hours on weekends with lesson prep and grading.


136 posted on 02/02/2007 9:27:38 AM PST by jaime1959
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To: savedbygrace
I sorry your confused, but not surprised.
137 posted on 02/02/2007 9:29:52 AM PST by A Strict Constructionist
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To: twigs
"This is the second thread in several days where people who do not know what they are talking about but think they do just criticize teachers. It drives me crazy. I'm the first to criticize them when I see issues that they need called on."

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you ... but you seem to say that you are uniquely free to criticize teachers when you think they deserve it, but everyone else is clueless and shouldn't voice an opinion?

138 posted on 02/02/2007 9:30:43 AM PST by JustaDumbBlonde
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To: CharacterCounts; mysterio

Don't forget the farmer-bashing threads.


139 posted on 02/02/2007 9:32:26 AM PST by JustaDumbBlonde
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To: JustaDumbBlonde

Don't forget the farmer-bashing threads.






No doubt started by those cattlemen!


140 posted on 02/02/2007 9:34:36 AM PST by durasell (!)
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