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BETRAYING AMERICA
The New York Post ^ | January 28, 2007

Posted on 01/28/2007 5:35:24 AM PST by freeperfromnj

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1 posted on 01/28/2007 5:35:25 AM PST by freeperfromnj
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To: freeperfromnj

The RATS are also saying, " it's OK, get our neighbors families killed, we don't mind at all"


2 posted on 01/28/2007 5:44:28 AM PST by Waco
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To: Waco
Betrayal is just a word, on the road to calling this what it really is, with some consequences behind it: Treason.
3 posted on 01/28/2007 5:47:58 AM PST by C210N (Bush SPIED, Terrorists DIED!)
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To: C210N
We presently have more than 140,000 troops in Iraq.

Not wanting to send in more, is sanity, not treason.

4 posted on 01/28/2007 5:52:43 AM PST by desertlily
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To: desertlily

So putting a General in charge of operations which has clearly said he wants more troops on the ground, then not giving them to him is sanity to you?

How could anyone think that not giving the man everything he needs is a smart move? perhaps you can enlighten me........


5 posted on 01/28/2007 5:58:00 AM PST by federal
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To: C210N
calling this what it really is, with some consequences behind it: Treason.

Call it what you want my friend. No Democrat alive will ever be punished for it. They'll never even be admonished for it, except in the hollow echoing space of this and a few dozen other internet forums. The word and the accusation will certainly never see the light of day in the MSM.

Democrats could be waiting on the shore line in New Jersey handing out cash, grenades, AK-47's and a hearty pat on the back to terrorists, and it would never make the MSM's "news".

6 posted on 01/28/2007 5:58:38 AM PST by Hardastarboard (DemocraticUnderground.com is an internet hate site.)
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To: freeperfromnj

bump


7 posted on 01/28/2007 5:59:46 AM PST by God luvs America (When the silent majority speaks the earth trembles!)
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To: desertlily

I have to agree with you on this desertlily - at least till someone explains what a 17% increase in boots on the ground is actually going to accomplish strategically. Are the defenders of Sadr City so powerful that between our 140,000 and the New Iraqi Army there aren't enough good guys to take them down? I fear that the problem is with the ROE, not manpower, and that this is a political manuver with no military value.


8 posted on 01/28/2007 6:02:22 AM PST by Old_Mil (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: freeperfromnj

9 posted on 01/28/2007 6:05:27 AM PST by Gritty (The Left shares the aims of the enemy abroad in order to defeat the enemy at home - Dinesh D’Souza)
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To: freeperfromnj; All

http://truthlaidbear.com/thenrscpledge/index.php

27,270 people have signed The Pledge thus far. Will you?


If the United States Senate passes a resolution, non-binding or otherwise, that criticizes the commitment of additional troops to Iraq that General Petraeus has asked for and that the president has pledged, and if the Senate does so after the testimony of General Petraeus on January 23 that such a resolution will be an encouragement to the enemy, I will not contribute to any Republican senator who voted for the resolution. Further, if any Republican senator who votes for such a resolution is a candidate for re-election in 2008, I will not contribute to the National Republican Senatorial Committee unless the Chairman of that Committee, Senator Ensign, commits in writing that none of the funds of the NRSC will go to support the re-election of any senator supporting the non-binding resolution.


10 posted on 01/28/2007 6:10:34 AM PST by MNJohnnie (I do not forgive Senator John McCain for helping destroy everything we built since 1980.)
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To: desertlily
Nope. Opposing it is just rabid stupidity from the Oprah Generation who cannot be bother to think about anything but merely define reality by how they feel. It is an example of how the Hysteric Leftists in our society have totally suspend all thought in order to blindly following the Know Nothing screaming by a politically motivated Junk Media. Iraq makes them feel bad therfore so Iraq must be bad. Funny how the screaming Lunatic Left is all so upset by 30,000 Iraqi militants but has utterly NO problem ignoring the other 24,970,000 Iraqis.

Gee sorry Iraq upsets you. Tell you what. JUST stop worrying about it. The Hysteric Whiners neither know anyone there nor know anyone who has family there. Iraq is a completely irrelevant issue to about 99.9% of you screamers. The ONLY reason you think you need to be upset about it is because your Junk Media Idols scream about it all day. Tell you what, Just go back to your daily potty fest and get out of our way. Just stop worrying about Iraq. We guard dogs will keep you sheep safe. Don't worry about us.

Why Iraq

One of the really infuriating things in modern politics is the level of disinformation, misinformation, demagoguery and out right lying going on about the mission in Iraq. Democrats have spent the last 3+ years lying about Iraq out of a political calculation. The assumption is that the natural isolationist mindset of the average American voter, linked to the inherent Anti Americanism (what is misnamed the "Anti War movement") of the more feverish Democrat activists (especially those running the US's National "News" media) would restore them to national political dominance. The truth is the Democrat Party Leadership has simply lacked the courage to speak truth to whiners. The truth is that even if Al Gore won the 2000 election and 09-11 still happened we would be doing the EXACT same things in Iraq we are doing now.

Based on the political situation in the region left over from the 1991 Gulf War plus the domestic political consensus built up in BOTH parties since 1991 as well as fundamental military strategic laws, there was NO viable strategic choice for the US but to take out Iraq after finishing the initial operations in Afghanistan.

To start with Saddam's Iraq was our most immediate threat. We could NOT commit significant military forces to another battle with Saddam hovering undefeated on our flank nor could we leave significant forces watching Saddam. The political containment of Iraq was breaking down. That what Oil for Food was all about. Oil for Food was an attempt by Iraq to break out of it's diplomatic isolation and slip the shackles the UN Sanctions put on it's military. There there was the US Strategic position to consider.

The War on Islamic Fascism is different sort of war. in facing this Asymmetrical threat, we have a hidden foe, spread out across a geographically diverse area, with covert sources of supply. Since we cannot go everywhere they hide out, in fact often cannot even locate them until the engage us, we need to draw them out of hiding into a kill zone.

Iraq is that kill zone. That is the true brilliance of the Iraq strategy. We draw the terrorists out of their world wide hiding places onto a battlefield they have to fight on for political reasons (The "Holy" soil of the Arabian peninsula) where they have to pit their weakest ability (Conventional Military combat power) against our greatest strength (ability to call down unbelievable amounts of firepower) where they will primarily have to fight other forces (the Iraqi Security forces) in a battlefield that is mostly neutral in terms of guerrilla warfare. (Iraqi-mostly open terrain as opposed to guerrilla friendly areas like the mountains of Afghanistan or the jungles of SE Asia).

Did any of the critics of liberating Iraq ever look at a map? Iraq, for which we had the political, legal and moral justifications to attack, is the strategic high ground of the Middle East. A Geographic barrier that severs ground communication between Iran and Syria apart as well as providing another front of attack in either state or into Saudi Arabia if needed.

There were other reasons to do Iraq but here is the strategic military reason we are in Iraq. We have taken, an maintain the initiative from the Terrorists. They are playing OUR game on ground of OUR choosing.

Problem is Counter Insurgency is SLOW and painful. Often a case of 3 steps forward, two steps back. One has to wonder if the American people have either the emotional maturity, nor the intellect" to understand. It's so much easier to spew made for TV slogans like "No Blood for Oil" or "We support the Troops, bring them home" or dumbest of all "We are creating terrorists" then to actually THINK.

Westerners in general, and the US citizens in particular seem to have trouble grasping the fundamental fact of this foe. These Islamic Fascists have NO desire to co-exist with them. The extremists see all this PC posturing by the Hysteric Left as a sign that we are weak. Since they want us dead, weakness encourages them. There is simply no way to coexist with people who completely believe their "god" will reward them for killing us.

So we can covert to Islam, die or kill them. Iraq is about killing enough of them to make the rest of the Jihadists realize we are serious. They same way killing enough Germans, Italians and Japanese eliminated the ideologies of Nazism, Fascism and Bushido.

Americans need to understand how Bin Laden and his ilk view us. In the Arab world the USA is considered a big wimp. We have run away so many times. Lebanon, the Kurds, the Iraqis in 1991, the Iranians, Somalia, Clinton all thru the 1990s etc etc etc. The Jihadists think we will run again. In fact they are counting on it. That way they can run around screaming "We beat the American just like the Russians, come join us in Jihad" and recruit the next round of "holy warriors". Iraq is also a show place where we show the Muslim world that there are a lines they cannot cross. On 9-11-01 they crossed that line and we can, and will, destroy them for it

11 posted on 01/28/2007 6:19:35 AM PST by MNJohnnie (I do not forgive Senator John McCain for helping destroy everything we built since 1980.)
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To: desertlily

How do you figure that???

Thats ok, a lot better people have sacrificed and died for you to have that opinion...

To tell you thee truth, I'm not all that warm and fuzzy about sending more boots on the ground in there anyway...

I'm saying we need to un-fetter who we got over there now, clean house, and tell the Iraqi's you better start getting your act together...To hell with what the defeatist say here and what the rest of the world thinks...

What are they going to do about if if we do finally take care of radical islam??? Because thats what it is about...


12 posted on 01/28/2007 6:28:26 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans (I've always been hated))
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To: Waco

soon it will be our malls, then our homes - then maybe the rats will understand what they have done to this country.

This country will pay the price of the dems incompetence and stupidity.


13 posted on 01/28/2007 6:38:55 AM PST by SusaninOhio
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To: Old_Mil
The Russians used your Free Fire doctrine in Afghanistan. How did that work out for them?

As has been explained only a few thousand times the 21,000 are to help stiffen the Iraqi forces. The original plan was way too optimistic. It assumed that the Iraqis could simply take over Security Duties. What we discovered is that while some of the Iraqi units are real good, some are crap.

The problem is the the leadership cadres of these units do not have the depth of experience to operate a modern military. It was foolish to expect a build from scratch military would be able to operate on the same level of professionalism as Western Military with decades of hard more experience .

So the plan is to intersperse 1 US Battalion with each Iraqi brigade and up the number of advisers working with the Iraqi units. The reason you add troops rather then pull them from other areas is obvious. It would be utterly stupid to uncover other areas to swarm Baghdad. The bad guys would simply pull up stakes and move to an area that was uncovered. So instead you add the troops to swarm Baghdad.

So rather then cling mindlessly to their Know Nothing Dogmas, how about the Dinocons FINALLY quit screaming one time long enough to ACTUALLY BOTHER TO LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT IRAQ?

Why Iraq

One of the really infuriating things in modern politics is the level of disinformation, misinformation, demagoguery and out right lying going on about the mission in Iraq. Democrats have spent the last 3+ years lying about Iraq out of a political calculation. The assumption is that the natural isolationist mindset of the average American voter, linked to the inherent Anti Americanism (what is misnamed the "Anti War movement") of the more feverish Democrat activists (especially those running the US's National "News" media) would restore them to national political dominance. The truth is the Democrat Party Leadership has simply lacked the courage to speak truth to whiners. The truth is that even if Al Gore won the 2000 election and 09-11 still happened we would be doing the EXACT same things in Iraq we are doing now.

Based on the political situation in the region left over from the 1991 Gulf War plus the domestic political consensus built up in BOTH parties since 1991 as well as fundamental military strategic laws, there was NO viable strategic choice for the US but to take out Iraq after finishing the initial operations in Afghanistan.

To start with Saddam's Iraq was our most immediate threat. We could NOT commit significant military forces to another battle with Saddam hovering undefeated on our flank nor could we leave significant forces watching Saddam. The political containment of Iraq was breaking down. That what Oil for Food was all about. Oil for Food was an attempt by Iraq to break out of it's diplomatic isolation and slip the shackles the UN Sanctions put on it's military. There there was the US Strategic position to consider.

The War on Islamic Fascism is different sort of war. in facing this Asymmetrical threat, we have a hidden foe, spread out across a geographically diverse area, with covert sources of supply. Since we cannot go everywhere they hide out, in fact often cannot even locate them until the engage us, we need to draw them out of hiding into a kill zone.

Iraq is that kill zone. That is the true brilliance of the Iraq strategy. We draw the terrorists out of their world wide hiding places onto a battlefield they have to fight on for political reasons (The "Holy" soil of the Arabian peninsula) where they have to pit their weakest ability (Conventional Military combat power) against our greatest strength (ability to call down unbelievable amounts of firepower) where they will primarily have to fight other forces (the Iraqi Security forces) in a battlefield that is mostly neutral in terms of guerrilla warfare. (Iraqi-mostly open terrain as opposed to guerrilla friendly areas like the mountains of Afghanistan or the jungles of SE Asia).

Did any of the critics of liberating Iraq ever look at a map? Iraq, for which we had the political, legal and moral justifications to attack, is the strategic high ground of the Middle East. A Geographic barrier that severs ground communication between Iran and Syria apart as well as providing another front of attack in either state or into Saudi Arabia if needed.

There were other reasons to do Iraq but here is the strategic military reason we are in Iraq. We have taken, an maintain the initiative from the Terrorists. They are playing OUR game on ground of OUR choosing.

Problem is Counter Insurgency is SLOW and painful. Often a case of 3 steps forward, two steps back. One has to wonder if the American people have either the emotional maturity, nor the intellect" to understand. It's so much easier to spew made for TV slogans like "No Blood for Oil" or "We support the Troops, bring them home" or dumbest of all "We are creating terrorists" then to actually THINK.

Westerners in general, and the US citizens in particular seem to have trouble grasping the fundamental fact of this foe. These Islamic Fascists have NO desire to co-exist with them. The extremists see all this PC posturing by the Hysteric Left as a sign that we are weak. Since they want us dead, weakness encourages them. There is simply no way to coexist with people who completely believe their "god" will reward them for killing us.

So we can covert to Islam, die or kill them. Iraq is about killing enough of them to make the rest of the Jihadists realize we are serious. They same way killing enough Germans, Italians and Japanese eliminated the ideologies of Nazism, Fascism and Bushido.

Americans need to understand how Bin Laden and his ilk view us. In the Arab world the USA is considered a big wimp. We have run away so many times. Lebanon, the Kurds, the Iraqis in 1991, the Iranians, Somalia, Clinton all thru the 1990s etc etc etc. The Jihadists think we will run again. In fact they are counting on it. That way they can run around screaming "We beat the American just like the Russians, come join us in Jihad" and recruit the next round of "holy warriors". Iraq is also a show place where we show the Muslim world that there are a lines they cannot cross. On 9-11-01 they crossed that line and we can, and will, destroy them for it

14 posted on 01/28/2007 6:48:00 AM PST by MNJohnnie (I do not forgive Senator John McCain for helping destroy everything we built since 1980.)
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To: freeperfromnj
"...an obviously less politically risky move than actually defunding the troops.

So paint them cowards as well as hypocrites."

I suggest a name for those who lack a commitment to victory in Iraq, but also lack a commitment to defund, i.e. those who, for political reasons, want to play it both ways.

Those who lack a commitment are: SPORKS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spork

15 posted on 01/28/2007 6:53:17 AM PST by LZ_Bayonet
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To: freeperfromnj

It's the democrat's position that American blood shouldn't be spilled helping brown skinned people. It's all part of the core racism in the democrat party.


16 posted on 01/28/2007 6:53:39 AM PST by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: MNJohnnie
The Russians used your Free Fire doctrine in Afghanistan. How did that work out for them?

Not well. However, keep in mind that the Russian failure in Afghanistan was due to their strategic objective - to invade and prop up the communist government of a satellite state. Had we tried to annex Afghanistan, we would have fared no better.

Furthermore, with the exception of the Kurds, this business about "winning the hearts and minds" doesn't seem to be working out all that well in Iraq, so I wouldn't be one to criticize. I'm happier when an army is left to do an army's job - wiping out foreign enemies.

So the plan is to intersperse 1 US Battalion with each Iraqi brigade and up the number of advisers working with the Iraqi units. The reason you add troops rather then pull them from other areas is obvious. It would be utterly stupid to uncover other areas to swarm Baghdad. The bad guys would simply pull up stakes and move to an area that was uncovered. So instead you add the troops to swarm Baghdad.

So this is the plan. Very well. Send the reinforcements. Let's see how it works. Just be quite sure that this is the right strategy and will solve the problem, because stepping deeper into a mess without a clear way to step out is not going to improve anything.

So rather then cling mindlessly to their Know Nothing Dogmas, how about the Dinocons FINALLY quit screaming one time long enough to ACTUALLY BOTHER TO LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT IRAQ?

I understand that we've had several pitched battles on FR over the issue of illegal immgration (which you support and I oppose), foreign ownership of strategic assets (which you support and I oppose), and so on. Given that, I'll take the Dinocon comment as a complement.
17 posted on 01/28/2007 7:00:49 AM PST by Old_Mil (http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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To: Old_Mil
Go back and try actually reading my post one time instead of merely firing back your pre-programed response based wholly based on your emotional distaste for the current occupant of the White House.
18 posted on 01/28/2007 7:03:42 AM PST by MNJohnnie (I do not forgive Senator John McCain for helping destroy everything we built since 1980.)
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To: MNJohnnie

Thank you for that cogent summary. Anyone who can read a map and remember beyond the last Oprah should see it. However, the regular daily drumbeat of the 5th column started well before Iraq, and never let up. It got shriller and louder, even when proven wrong by events. The hazy vision of Quagmire has finally been pulled over the American eyes. Have they won?


19 posted on 01/28/2007 7:05:55 AM PST by GopherIt
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To: LZ_Bayonet

20 posted on 01/28/2007 7:12:14 AM PST by LZ_Bayonet
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