Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Terri Schiavo Judge George Greer to Speak at Jury Trial Conference
Life News ^ | 1/5/07 | Steven Ertelt

Posted on 01/06/2007 5:52:57 PM PST by wagglebee

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 281-300 next last
To: EternalVigilance
Read the whole thing. Dr. Keyes has lost none of his rigor. I am impressed that this audience could stay with him; his view runs deep.

As for Terri, many believe Jeb Bush stained a pretty decent governorship and ruined his political future by being gutless. He had the constitutional duty to protect her and the means to do it. He wussed out completely. Dr. Keyes actually went to see Jeb in person, trying to get him to recognize his duty, but was snubbed.

Ironies abound. The federal bill to ask judicial review for Terri was bipartisan, but Democrats turned around later and blamed Republicans for intervening. More ironic, neither party's actions had any effect on the case at all. It wasn't "overreach," it was no-reach. The feds had a constitutional duty to act, but did too little, much too late, then fizzled out completely. They let a rogue circuit judge walk all over them, didn't even enforce their own subpoenas. They didn't slow down Terri's unconstitutional execution by one minute.

121 posted on 01/08/2007 5:20:10 PM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies]

To: T'wit

Very well stated.


122 posted on 01/08/2007 5:21:31 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: highball
>> Come now, let's keep it clear. Michael's decision was to follow the medical advice of his wife's doctors in regards to her treatment.

The way I put it was perfectly clear and it is the law. It was you who insisted that Michael alone had the right and duty to make the decision. It was you who said he DID make it. You were incorrect on both counts.

You did not mention doctors, but since you do now, be advised that Florida law does not allow either euthanasia or assisted suicide. Doctors may not make the decision either.

Michael dreamed up that "following a doctor's advice" yarn only after he got caught in 1993 trying to kill Terri by withholding antibiotics when she was ill. His story didn't hold up to cross-examination.

123 posted on 01/08/2007 5:31:54 PM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 119 | View Replies]

To: highball
I have the legal right to infer what she would want in such circumstances, based on our private relationship.

No you don't... marriage is a public act and that idiot was with another woman anyway... no more relationship...


The state should keep its grubby paws out of that relationship -

The marriage license already let them into it... and you signed it...


The state should keep its grubby paws out of that relationship - they have no right to interfere with family medical decisions.

Parents and siblings are blood family... spouses are not...

124 posted on 01/08/2007 5:34:00 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]

To: highball
The state should keep its grubby paws out of that relationship - they have no right to interfere with family medical decisions.

Child neglect and spousal abuse are crimes...

125 posted on 01/08/2007 5:35:57 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]

To: highball
>> Private family medical decisions should remain just that - private. Not the State's business.

I agree. Keep in mind that it was Michael who first asked the state to intervene -- in 1998. It was the state that prevented private medical decisions and prevented Terri's family from having any say in those decisions. It was the state that ordered her death by dehydration / starvation.

126 posted on 01/08/2007 5:38:02 PM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 119 | View Replies]

To: T'wit
Michael dreamed up that "following a doctor's advice" yarn only after he got caught in 1993 trying to kill Terri by withholding antibiotics when she was ill. His story didn't hold up to cross-examination.

Amen. I know they want us to post that part, but I'll wait until they request it.

127 posted on 01/08/2007 5:38:43 PM PST by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 123 | View Replies]

To: highball
>> See, here's the problem when you join in a conversation without reading all the relevant posts.

There is no problem and I did read all the posts. I replied to your comment to me in #107.

>> I'm glad you agree with me, that garv's attack on Michael Schiavo was without foundation and had "nothing to do" with the legitimacy of his guardianship.

Stop being glad, I don't agree with you.

128 posted on 01/08/2007 5:50:18 PM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 117 | View Replies]

To: T'wit
There is no private relationship in marriage. Marriage is a public act that requires a statutory license (Reynolds v. United States, 1878).

The state is just as much involved in your divorce and any matters of abuse and spousal/child support if you get married.

We are not like the Islamics where a woman is a slave subject to beatings or murder by her husband's whim.

It is also the business of the state, since you got a birth certificate for your child, to assure you are accountable for child neglect/endangerment.

Marriage, like medical practice and legal practice requires a license - - AND ONCE YOU SIGN FOR IT, IT IS EVERY BIT THE STATE'S BUSINESS WHAT YOU DO...

129 posted on 01/08/2007 5:52:29 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 114 | View Replies]

To: T'wit

Well said.


130 posted on 01/08/2007 5:57:09 PM PST by EternalVigilance (Circumstances are the fire by which the mettle of men is tried.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: Sir Francis Dashwood
>> There is no private relationship in marriage. Marriage is a public act that requires a statutory license

Interesting point. Thanks for mentioning it and for explaining it so well. I certainly would not (and did not) argue that the state had no interest in crimes, child neglect and all the rest, within a marriage. The law does not authorize one spouse to harm the other or the children, even under color of a "private" medical decision.

The Schiavo litigation turned more on guardianship; marital status remained a private matter. All the Schindlers could do was plead for Michael to give Terri a divorce, which, of course, he refused. As long as he was the guardian, he prevented Terri from suing him for divorce! (I suspect a guardian ad litem could have fixed that, and that may be why Judge Greer would not allow a serious GAL.)

My opinion, incidentally, is that Terri's still-unexplained injuries were the result of an assault by Michael. He lost his only alibi with the autopsy report, and he has told too many different stories about what happened that night, none of them plausible.

131 posted on 01/08/2007 6:26:27 PM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 129 | View Replies]

To: T'wit

I think Mr. Shiavo attempted to murder his wife and botched it, panicked about being discovered and ended up having her hanging on by a thread in an emergency room...

He could have never let the real facts of how she may have gotten into that condition known under any circumstances...


132 posted on 01/08/2007 6:30:44 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 131 | View Replies]

To: T'wit
It was the state that ordered her death by dehydration / starvation.

I think that's a misleading characterization. The treatment did not originate with the state; the court ruled that the guardian's proposed treatment was legal, reasonably represented the wishes of the patient and he could go through with it. Had the guardian wished another course fo treatment, the court would have ordered that course of treatment followed.

You might consider this a small difference perhaps, but it is important to keep these things clear.

133 posted on 01/08/2007 6:30:58 PM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 126 | View Replies]

To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Marriage, like medical practice and legal practice requires a license - - AND ONCE YOU SIGN FOR IT, IT IS EVERY BIT THE STATE'S BUSINESS WHAT YOU DO...

Interesting.

Do you see any limits to the State's power to control what happens between husband and wife in their marriage?

134 posted on 01/08/2007 6:34:00 PM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 129 | View Replies]

To: highball; Sir Francis Dashwood
>> Private family medical decisions should remain just that - private. Not the State's business.

I agreed with this statement earlier, and still agree if the medical decision is on the up and up. But I also agree with Sir Francis Dashwood's point that if such a decision breaks the law, it's no longer private. In fact, it's downright deceitful to use terminology like "private medical decision" to hide a murder.

135 posted on 01/08/2007 6:39:18 PM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 119 | View Replies]

To: highball
>> I think that's a misleading characterization.

It isn't. You should read Judge Greer's order. It was ultra vires in withdrawing not only medical care (arguably legal) but also oral nutrition and hydration (which is not withdrawable medical care in law). Iow, Judge Greer, on no legal authority whatsoever, ordered Terri's death.

136 posted on 01/08/2007 6:44:25 PM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 133 | View Replies]

To: highball
They are your family too, iow. Their stance before a court under law is higher with regard to issues about you -- such as wills or custody or sanity disputes than that of anyone else beside your wife, and perhaps your children.

And, no, your wife may not sentence you to death when you are conscious or unconscious. That is murder.

137 posted on 01/08/2007 7:10:49 PM PST by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: highball
Do you see any limits to the State's power to control what happens between husband and wife in their marriage?

A marriage LICENSE is a PUBLIC document, a PUBLIC act... you sign it, it is no longer a private matter... period...

Exemptions for dependents on tax returns, social security, birth certificates, making babies, all of it is public business if it involves public money... and if you sign for them, you have authorized the state to make it their business.

"Privacy" is not found anywhere in the United States Constitution...

138 posted on 01/08/2007 7:12:47 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 134 | View Replies]

To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Yes, that's very, very close to how I see it. The only difference I have is that I don't believe he tried to kill her. I believe he came home steaming mad and meant to punish her. They'd had a ferocious argument that day. He was still fuming and meant to continue the fight.

As best I can reconstruct it, he dragged her out of bed when he got home. She would have been asleep, and could have offered no resistance in any case -- he's twice her size and he had her from behind. He wrestled her down a few feet away in the hallway, outside the bedroom door, and got on her back. His knees pinned her down. He had one knee in the small of her back (which caused a compression fracture at L1 plus fractures at rear of ribs -- both of which are very unusual injuries) and the other knee on her right leg (leaving a bone bruise on right femur; another odd injury). Her head was sideways. His weight was so great she couldn't breathe. Neither could she speak, to beg him to stop. She did struggle -- that was shown by a condition called lactic acidosis in her blood tests = violent exertion in the absence of oxygen. She tried desperately to draw a breath but could not. The struggle could not have lasted long, though. Unconsciousness comes within seconds, death soon after if this position is not relieved. It is called "positional asphyxia" and it shows up mostly in police restraint cases where the police get too heavy holding a criminal down. It kills. Michael stayed atop her too long. Then he panicked and went to pieces. When the medics finally did get there, Terri was in full cardiac arrest and needed seven defibs. Incidentally, the famous acute hypokalemia that showed up in Terri's blood testing is characteristic of trauma, not of bulimia.

139 posted on 01/08/2007 7:15:02 PM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 132 | View Replies]

To: T'wit

Your scenario is most plausible... but that would still make it a homicide.

His animosity toward her parents regarding her internment betrays him to me as a would be murderer... I cannot prove it, but it does point me towards the intent to commit murder or grievous bodily harm at the least...

It is the psychological profile of his behavior.


140 posted on 01/08/2007 7:32:52 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 139 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 281-300 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson