First UK pit bull amnesty begins

BBC ^ | 1/2/07 | n/a

[kanawa]

I made no conclusions, but if you want some, here are my conclusions:

Ahh...you posted some stats followed by an assertion of fact.
You want me to believe you were not using the stats to back up your statement?
Strange, it had the appearance of a classic syllogism...
Since "pit bulls" killed these many people
and since other dogs killed less people
Therefore "pit bulls are the most dangerous breed"

Now you're offering me some "real" conclusions.
Without some data to back them up they are just as much
unsubstantiated opinions as your first statement.
Show me that they are "responsible for injuries and deaths far in excess of their numbers".
Results are usually more severe than what other breeds? All of them? Quantify "usually".
Interesting, so while you deny your first statement that "pit bulls" are "the most dangerous breed" was a conclusion,
you now offer me, "pits bulls are the deadliest" as a conclusion.
What do you mean by deadliest?
They have been involved in more fatalities over a given interval of time than other dogs?
Do you attribute that to the sheer numbers of them, to irresponsible ownership
or to inherent human aggression?
Do you have facts other than the study you posted above?
Did you check out Delise's study for 1995-99 that I linked to?
Do the reports over that time period support you conclusion?

Interesting antedote...am I to assume this would never have happened with any other type of dog?
Why were you allowing a dog in the classroom?
Was it a male or female? Intact?
Had the dog been there before or was this its first time in the class,
an environment filled with strangers in a cramped space?
If that was the case did it not occur to you that it might be a problem?
It was apparently sleeping, was it also apparently startled?
Were you at the front of the class or two rows back, close to it?
What led you to believe you were the target?
Did the owner actually have to "drag" the dog out?

An antedote of my own...
I was bitten by a GSD without warning.
What conclusion do you think I should draw from my experience?

Answer at your leisure if you feel so inclined.
I have to call it quits for tonight.
For some reason I've developed a headache.
Cheers

[Poser]

"Now you're offering me some "real" conclusions."

Which of my conclusions do you dispute?

[kanawa]

Which of my conclusions do you dispute?

That I don't know how to spell 'anecdote'. :)

[Poser]

Interesting antedote...am I to assume this would never have happened with any other type of dog? Why were you allowing a dog in the classroom? Was it a male or female? Intact?

Neutered male.

Had the dog been there before or was this its first time in the class, an environment filled with strangers in a cramped space?

Dogs are in out building all day, every day. I have no idea if the dog had been there before. The student was simply working on a computer with the dog sleeping on the floor, like hundreds of others do every year.

If that was the case did it not occur to you that it might be a problem?

I might have if it had ever happened with any of the other hundreds of dogs that had been in the same place without problems.

It was apparently sleeping, was it also apparently startled? Were you at the front of the class or two rows back, close to it?

I wasn't closer than 10 feet.

What led you to believe you were the target?

The dog ran toward me snarling?

Did the owner actually have to "drag" the dog out?

Yes. In the 26 years that I have been teaching at this school, there have been two agressive dog incidents. They both involved pit bulls. We've had lots of annoyingly friendly dog incidents. I keep a jar of dog treats in my office for unannounced visits by a couple of the office dogs that belong to the animal science faculty. Finnegan, the chocolate lab, is my personal favorite. The goat was my fault. I patted his little head and caught my cuff on his horn when he flipped his head. I had to turn the shirt into a short sleeve model.

[Vinnie]

Won't be long 'till they snuff out all peni

..when they take it from my cold dead hand.. (G)

[kanawa]

Dogs are in out building all day, every day....like hundreds of others do every year.

Well, knock me over with a feather, I never heard of such a school.
Don't they have personal injury trial lawyers in your neck of the woods? ;~)

[Poser]

"Well, knock me over with a feather, I never heard of such a school."

Our Animal Science department has a small animal option that teaches grooming, breeding and training. Students bring their own animals and the public bring their animals into the grooming lab.

Fortunately, the dairy and equine programs have their own barns and the cattle and horses are never seen in our building. The stud barn, however is right next door. We used to have a abattoir in our building, but they replaced it with a small animal grooming lab. Instead of hearing squealing pigs or loud sheep, I hear barking on Wednesday afternoons.

[Tailback]

how about those crazy ancient Minoans and their bull jumping...

The only important thing about Minoan culture is that the dresses for women were topless. That's something that needs to be brought back "For histories sake."

[Fair Go]

The Poms should keep all pitbulls and train them to play cricket. At least that might give them a half decent team.

[maxwell]

Beautiful dogs. Better behaved than mine too with food still on their heads.

Hey did you hear about an incident in central-west Texas- Merkel, Texas maybe, right around the end of December where a woman was trying to break up a fight between her two pits and the bigger male (125 lb according to newspaper clip I read) turned on her, necessitating both her arms to be amputated?

Interested in getting more facts about this one. For example, I speculate the dog was not altered.

[maxwell]

Never mind, you found that one...

[maxwell]

I was bitten by one dog and that was a golden retriever.

I have seen some aggressive goldens. Aggressive in the presence of kids too. Would not trust those particular dogs around kids though I am sure that there are perfectly trustworthy goldens, as there are perfectly trustworthy pits.

(As much as one trusts anybody, and that includes humans...)

[CGTRWK]

Any dog can be taught to be mean.

That's true to a degree, but these dogs were specifically bred for aggression. It can be disciplined out of some of them some of the time but that will always be what they revert to when training fails.

You never hear a claim that a border collie herding or a lab retrieving or a bloodhound sniffing or a scottie digging is just the owner's mentality.

[solosmoke]

These dogs were NOT bred specifically for aggression. They were originally bred to be an all-purpose dog, and later, used to bait bulls and fight other dogs when bull baiting became illegal. Over all the years these dogs had been bred at all, the keystone in their demeanor was their rock-solid temperament when it came to humans. I have two of "these dogs" and I have not had to train aggression out of them because it was never in them.

The dogs attacking people are dogs that are not cared for properly, running loose, chained up, or a combination of one of these and being intact. It has EVERYTHING to do with how they are cared for. You never see any news articles about Veterinarians or animal behaviorists having dogs that attack. It seems to come from the same owners over and over again. THAT is the pattern, not breed.

If the breed really was the problem, the mere fact that these dogs are the most popular right now should send the deathtoll reeling out of control. Yet, it has remained the same average for decades, no matter what breed becomes the most popular.

That is not to say that the embarrasments to the human race aren't trying to make a human-aggressive pit bull, but when it comes down to it, they must be doing a pretty crappy job (thank God). Otherwise, the number of attacks and deaths would go up, instead of remaining the same average for at least forty years.