Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Basics of PaleoConservatism
News By Us ^ | Dec 21, 06 | William H. Calhoun

Posted on 12/25/2006 8:54:12 AM PST by A. Pole

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 201-216 next last
To: gcruse

Giving them a 'democracy' is a great idea on paper. However, it's very difficult to transform regions of the world that have a 7th century mentality in a few years. Many of the 'people' in that part of the world have a savage animalistic barbaric mindset... and sadly it's not going to change anytime soon.


41 posted on 12/25/2006 9:53:29 AM PST by BigTom85 (Proud Gun Owner and Member of NRA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: y'all
Quite telling that the author says nothing about constitutional differences between the factions.

-- Could it be that neither side support & defend it without reservation?
42 posted on 12/25/2006 9:54:33 AM PST by tpaine (" My most important function on the Supreme Court is to tell the majority to take a walk." -Scalia)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: longtermmemmory
It is the Left's only advantage.

On the Left, they only tolerate their nuts to a degree, then dump them in favor of achieving victory. Look at what happened to Dean and Kucinich. They love their wackos, but only if they wont cost them victory.

We on the Right tend to hang with our wackos all the way to defeat.
43 posted on 12/25/2006 9:54:56 AM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: A. Pole
The proposition nation is the left-wing idealization of a nation whereby one only has to believe in a few propositions to be considered a citizen. Not only is this contrary to history, but it is the recipe for self-destruction. Paleoconservatives support the traditionally conservative concept of a nation: one built upon kith and kin, blood and soil, genophilia (instinctive attachment to family and tribe), ancestral obligations, and ethnic solidarity.

If this is what paleos actually believe, then they are fundamentally anti-American. This country is a product of the Enlightenment, built entirely of people who immigrated from other places - from cultures that believed in blood-and-soil tradition - to a new country where Jefferson promised that a person could by hard work improve his lot. This is what makes us different from classbound countries where the goodies flow to people who made a good choice of parents. If this is what defines a paleo, then I'm proud to be a neocon!

And on foreign policy, I don't believe in being a world policeman either, but America is the first nation in history to offer its bitterest enemies a chance to build Toyotas as an alternative to being annihilated. Whether Iraq can be 'fixed" pr not, all we want is for history to record that we offered the Arabs that same opportunity.

44 posted on 12/25/2006 9:55:26 AM PST by BlazingArizona
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rhombus

Per your argument, "For example, deporting all Muslims from the West to solve terrorism? Why stop there, how about the Jews..." The difference between Muslims and Jews is that no-one has ever seen a Jewish suicide bomber. That is the equivalent of a hypothetical fanatical Episcopalian terrorist - it doesn't exist. Deporting Muslims would prevent sleeper cells and possibly another 9/11. Deporting suicide bomber Jews and Episcopalian terrorists would prevent nothing - first, because no one is worried that they would ever work for Osama and Al Qaeda. Second, because fanatical Episcopalians and suicide bomber Jews do not exist.

You are stretching your argument to nonsensical lengths to compare Muslims (known to be responsible for numerous terrorist attacks) with hypothetical (suicide bomber)Jews and "not real Christians" aka (Episcopalian terrorists) - which are not resposible for any terrorist attacks. No Paleoconservative that I know of has ever advocated that position (0r strawman) that you are attacking.

As to supporting fair trade and opposing free trade, Paleo conservatives have distinguished supporters, including the first Congress of the United States - which passed the first Tariff act, Abraham Lincoln, and numerous Republican presidents after him. Abraham Lincoln turned the U.S. into the Arsenal of democracy with his protectionist views - do you now say Lincoln was wrong?


45 posted on 12/25/2006 9:56:18 AM PST by Howard Jarvis Admirer (Howard Jarvis, the foe of the tax collector and friend of the California homeowner)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Pukin Dog

Actually there are a lot of conservatives who believe that globalization / free trade with its wholesale export of American jobs is one of the biggest threats to our nation.


46 posted on 12/25/2006 9:59:28 AM PST by Buzzy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: A. Pole
My identity crisis has been solved!!!

I'm a Paleo!

Seriously, the author is right. The neos have moved far to the left.

I'm happy where I am. A little lonely sometimes, especially when it comes to representation in Washington, but overall, happy.

47 posted on 12/25/2006 9:59:37 AM PST by upchuck (How to win the WOT? Simple: set our rules of engagement to at least match those of our enemy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Howard Jarvis Admirer

"Abraham Lincoln turned the U.S. into the Arsenal of democracy"

A cite for that would sure be great. Otherwise, I say fooey. WWI resulted in that distinction. The US was primarily agrarian before then.


48 posted on 12/25/2006 10:00:44 AM PST by gcruse (http://garycruse.blogspot.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: gcruse
"The error we neocons made was in thinking Arabs, when free to choose, would choose democracy. Our bad. That doesn't make one a liberal. In fact, liberty used to be a conservative thing."

Your first statement is a brilliant analysis. As someone who had a lot of misgivings about invading Iraq I find myself sadly justified. Some people would rather have theocracy than democracy. Ultra orthodox Rabbis, Popes and Mullahs alike seem to view that the order of mankind on earth should be reflective of some supposed order in heaven.

But as far as Liberty being a conservative thing? Maybe briefly in a few limited places (and mostly here in North America and in England), but I would respectfully suggest that even today Thomas Paine or Thomas Jefferson would be considered very dangerous to the established order, nearly anywhere on earth. I really , REALLY doubt that the department of Homeland Security would NOT take notice of someone who states "A little revolution now and then is a good thing; the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"!
Merry Christmas
49 posted on 12/25/2006 10:02:04 AM PST by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, ATF and DEA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Howard Jarvis Admirer

Terrorism.... Some examples: Ireland - Protestant versus Catholic. America - KKK versus Jews, Catholics, African Americans... There is plenty of non-Muslim related terrorism. It's a tactic, not a race or religion. As for Free Trade, if I were among the first Congress or a contemporary of Lincoln, I might agree. Today? Not a chance.


50 posted on 12/25/2006 10:03:29 AM PST by rhombus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Howard Jarvis Admirer
Lincoln had the pews ripped out of Geo. Washington's church, and used the building for a stable.
51 posted on 12/25/2006 10:04:31 AM PST by patton (Sanctimony frequently reaps its own reward.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Howard Jarvis Admirer

"do you now say Lincoln was wrong?"

On trade, yes. Read Ricardo.

Or, if you are not theoretically inclined, read history. My favorite examples are India and Japan.

India suffered for decades under a protectionist policy. They finally stood to the dumbass unions, removed barriers to foreign "predators," engaged on a "war on the middle class" by privatizing many state industries, and "left the consumer unprotected" by deregulating many areas of the economy. (I'm simply trying to get the Newspeak correct.) The result-- millions are being turned from proletarians into proprietors with India's 10% growth rate. It is a beautiful and awesome transformation to behold.

The same thing happened with Japan in the 1800s. For centuries it was the perfect paleocon society containing a tradition of daimyos and serfs, and all foreigners were kept on an island in the port of Osaka. After they liberalized their economy, within decades Japan was a modern nation, and defeated Russia in a major war in 1905.


52 posted on 12/25/2006 10:05:09 AM PST by JHBowden (President Giuliani in 2008! Law and Order. Solid Judges. Free Markets. Killing Terrorists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: RedStateRocker

You're right about the distance modern politicians would put between themselves and the founders. I don't think Jefferson envisioned a 20-pound Federal Register of laws. What we pride ourselves in now is probably freedom lite.


53 posted on 12/25/2006 10:07:04 AM PST by gcruse (http://garycruse.blogspot.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: patton

I should have stopped reading much earlier, but I would have stopped here if there had been more: "..who fifty years ago would have been tried for treason.."

I must have missed the neocon treason trials of 1956.


54 posted on 12/25/2006 10:07:12 AM PST by Larry Lucido
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: gcruse
"What a pantload. Neocons were solidly behind the Iraq war, the wreckage of which paleos cling to like lifesavers. The error we neocons made was in thinking Arabs, when free to choose, would choose democracy. Our bad. That doesn't make one a liberal. In fact, liberty used to be a conservative thing."

Iraq is repudiation of Multiculturalism in general, and the "Proposition Nation" in particular. Neocons need to make the connection. These are very liberal notions based on the demonstrable fiction that "all cultures are equal".

Ignoring the civilizational aspects of the American Culture (yes, Virginia, we have a culture) and how these are vital to the success of the nation and her people.

Thinking that everything is economics is what chains us to the galley of Globalism, the "New World Order", and unchecked third world immigration.

The Neocons need to wake up and smell the Kool-aid.
55 posted on 12/25/2006 10:07:46 AM PST by outdriving (Diversity is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Larry Lucido

I was looking at the pictures in Cherrydale Lodge last week, and I found on of Barry Goldwater giving a speech there. I was impressed.


56 posted on 12/25/2006 10:10:48 AM PST by patton (Sanctimony frequently reaps its own reward.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: Buzzy
Actually there are a lot of conservatives who believe that globalization / free trade with its wholesale export of American jobs is one of the biggest threats to our nation.

Yes, and they are 100% wrong. The flaw is right there in your sentence. 'American' jobs? Since when were jobs owned by the state? And when did the state gain control over Businesses to decide who should legally (emphasis on legally) fill those jobs?

There are NO American jobs, only jobs. 'American jobs' is one of those PC plays-on-words, like "working families" or "under-privileged". Phrases that should insult people, but don't, thanks to our PC culture. America does not give out jobs, but creates and protects a culture of job creation through private investment in free enterprise.

The adoption of union-speak should be avoided at all costs.

57 posted on 12/25/2006 10:14:56 AM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: gcruse

Here are some of Lincoln's remarks on trade:

"My politics are short and sweet, like the old woman's dance. I am ... in favor of the internal improvements system and a high protective tariff." ~ Lincoln, Campaign Speech, 1832.

"[Free trade is a system whereby] some have labored, and others have, without labor, enjoyed a large portion of the fruits.... To secure to each laborer the whole product of his labor, or as nearly as possible, is a most worthy object of any good government."

"[International trade] is demonstrably a dead loss of labor... labor being the true standard of value." ~ Lincoln, Feb. 15, 1861

"The legitimate object of government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done, but cannot do at all, or cannot do so well, for themselves, in their separate and individual capacities."

"I... would continue (trade) where it is necessary, and discontinue it, where it is not. As instance: I would continue commerce so far as it is employed in bringing us coffee, and I would discontinue it so far as it is employed in bringing us cotton goods."

Lincoln levied heavy taxes on imported goods in order to encourage domestic manufacturing. His most notable quote was concerning the Transcontinental Railroad, where he was told it was cheaper to import British rails and trains than to buy American. Lincoln insisted that American goods be used, reasoning, If we buy the rails from the foreigner, Americans will have the rails, and the foreigner will have our money. But if Americans buy from Americans, America will have both the money and the rails.

Lincoln's policies built America into a manufacturing powerhouse with his policies of high tariffs and domestic manufacturing turning the U.S. into being the Arsenal of Democracy.


58 posted on 12/25/2006 10:15:09 AM PST by Howard Jarvis Admirer (Howard Jarvis, the foe of the tax collector and friend of the California homeowner)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: A. Pole

"opposed to political correctness, opposed to the vulgarity of popular culture, and opposed to big government."

Paleo BUMP.


59 posted on 12/25/2006 10:19:43 AM PST by reelfoot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Howard Jarvis Admirer
Your argument lacks subtlety.

Lincoln's tariff policy was for the protection of the national infrastructure, not unlike the Interstate Highway system pushed by Eisenhower. There will always be a need to develop state owned and managed infrastructure, but that infrastructure is ultimately for the support of the free enterprise which leverages it and pays for its support via taxes.

America did not become a manufacturing powerhouse until the Henry Ford era, again fueled by free enterprise, supported by state-owned infrastructure.
60 posted on 12/25/2006 10:21:23 AM PST by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 201-216 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson