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Rick Warren critics over OBAMA told to leave the church...
TownHall ^ | 12.14.2006 | Kevin McCullough

Posted on 12/14/2006 11:48:10 AM PST by jodiluvshoes

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To: Terriergal

Now that's a good church. My brother graduated from The Master's Seminary


241 posted on 12/15/2006 3:19:01 PM PST by bitty (Carolina is Bush Country)
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To: Terriergal

I posted it as insight into the rearing of one Barack Hussein Obama, and how skepticism of religious faiths and lack of a father may have shaped him.


242 posted on 12/15/2006 3:25:45 PM PST by Sender ("Always tell the truth; then you don't have to remember anything." -Mark Twain)
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To: jodiluvshoes

Why are politicians being allowed to use a church pulpit to make ANY kind of speech? Where is the IRS squad when we need them?!!


243 posted on 12/15/2006 3:31:29 PM PST by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: doc30
If Obama speaks at Saddleback Church and there is any political content, should the church not lose its tax exemption?

My thoughts, exactly. He's campaigning, make no mistake.

FROM THE IRS WEBSITE: Charities, Churches and Politics

The ban on political campaign activity by charities and churches was created by Congress 52 years ago. The Internal Revenue Service administers the tax laws written by Congress and has enforcement authority over tax-exempt organizations. Here is some background information on the political campaign activity ban and the latest IRS enforcement statistics regarding its adminstration of this congressional ban.

In 1954, Congress approved an amendment by Sen. Lyndon Johnson to prohibit 501(c)(3) organizations, which includes charities and churches, from engaging in any political campaign activity. To the extent Congress has revisited the ban over the years, it has in fact strengthened the ban. The most recent change came in 1987 when Congress amended the language to clarify that the prohibition also applies to statements opposing candidates.

Currently, the law prohibits political campaign activity by charities and churches by defining a 501(c)(3) organization as one "which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office."

The IRS has published Fact Sheet 2006-17, which outlines how churches, and all 501(c)(3) organizations, can stay within the law regarding the ban on political activity. Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena. The IRS also has provided guidance regarding the difference between advocating for a candidate and advocating for legislation. See political and lobbying activities.

Earlier this year, the IRS released the results of its Political Activity Compliance Initiative (PACI) which investigated allegations of political campaign activity by 501(c)(3) organizations during the 2004 campaign season. Out of 87 completed audits involving churches and charities from the 2004 election cycle, political intervention was substantiated in 71 percent of the cases. No political intervention was found in 23 percent of the cases, resulting in a “no change” finding.

Politics plays absolutely no role in audits. A team of career IRS employees review complaints submitted by the public and determine which allegations merit further review. An independent review confirmed that political considerations played no role in IRS decisions to further investigate allegations of political campaign activity. You can read the report here.

Each election cycle, the IRS reminds 501(c)(3) exempt organizations to be aware of the ban on political campaign activity. The IRS published its most recent reminder in a public news release which you can read here.

The division within the IRS responsible for overseeing churches and charities is the Tax Exempt and Government Entitities Division. TEGE has created a Web page entitled Charities, Churches, and Educational Organizations - Political Campaign Intervention. It is dedicated to the IRS most recent activities related to 501(c)(3) and political activity.

A definitive court case on the issue of free speech and political expression is Branch Ministries Inc. versus Rossotti. In that case, the court upheld the constitutionality of the ban on political activity. The court rejected the plaintiff church's allegations that it was being selectively prosecuted because of its conservative views and that its First Amendment right to free speech was being infringed.

The court wrote: "The government has a compelling interest in maintaining the integrity of the tax system and in not subsidizing partisan political activity, and Section 501(c)(3) is the least restrictive means of accomplishing that purpose."

244 posted on 12/15/2006 3:34:23 PM PST by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: ark_girl

Unfortunately, some non-Christians have more discernment and insight than believers.


245 posted on 12/15/2006 3:43:47 PM PST by evangmlw ("God Is Definitely Conservative")
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To: mariabush
In So. Baptist churches, when a person that is a member of one church wishes to "move" their membership, the new church is notified if there has been problems with the former member




Wouldn't that be being just a little judgmental?
The person may not have the same attitude, issues
or PEOPLE to deal with in the next year.
246 posted on 12/15/2006 3:51:24 PM PST by Uneasy Rider
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To: mariabush

to deal with in the next year.



Should read " next Church"


247 posted on 12/15/2006 3:53:15 PM PST by Uneasy Rider
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To: Uneasy Rider

Huh?


248 posted on 12/15/2006 4:03:58 PM PST by Coldwater Creek (The TERRORIST are the ones who won the midterm elections!)
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To: wideawake

Certainly plausible.

Don't see good horse sense as automatically unBiblical, however.


249 posted on 12/15/2006 5:16:00 PM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: L,TOWM

From my perspective, that perspective contains major portions of hogwash and wholesale narrow bias.


250 posted on 12/15/2006 5:27:05 PM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: wideawake

Definitely not my reality.


251 posted on 12/15/2006 5:29:46 PM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: Terriergal

RW is very clear about Salvation. His position is very Biblical. Asserting otherwise is askew of THE FACTS.


252 posted on 12/15/2006 5:37:12 PM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: Terriergal

Thanks.


253 posted on 12/15/2006 5:37:46 PM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace

Perhaps you'd be willing to shut down all the liberal churches hosting Shrillery et al first before a church full of mostly rather conservative folks.


254 posted on 12/15/2006 5:40:31 PM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: TommyDale

I think I'll take comfort in God's judgment about how I respond to false doctrine; what I consider false doctrine as I compare things to His priorities and standards

AND how weak I am. Thankfully, He knows quite well my host of utter weaknesses.

I pray often that I have His Passion for His priorities vs my own for my own.


255 posted on 12/15/2006 5:47:48 PM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: jodiluvshoes
It seems to me that we have somehow pushed the "self-destruct" button in this country. I am very disappointed to read this!!

Nancee

256 posted on 12/15/2006 5:54:47 PM PST by Nancee
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To: evangmlw

AMEN!


257 posted on 12/15/2006 6:07:08 PM PST by tutstar (Baptist Ping list - freepmail me to get on or off.)
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Veto!; TommyDale; Wuli
re: Delphi: there are actually two techniques, both called Delphi, which have little relation to each other

A writeup of the "good" Delphi technique is here

A writeup of the "dark side" Delphi Technique is here.

The latter technique is a way to bring a group into acceptance of a pre-determined idea, by identifying, isolating, and ridiculing any potential leaders for other points of view

258 posted on 12/15/2006 6:19:07 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the arrogance to think they will be the planners)
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To: sasha123
Obama states his religion is: United Church of Christ. (that doesn't make alot of sense - but here is a little about Obama's UCC)

It makes a lot of sense if Obama is not really a Christian, but thinks it good for his career to have some people THINK he is a Christian. Personally, I think he's a Muslim clothing himself the the pelt of the Lamb

259 posted on 12/15/2006 6:26:30 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the arrogance to think they will be the planners)
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To: SauronOfMordor

Again, I have only experienced the "dark side" version in both work places and at local churches.


260 posted on 12/15/2006 6:37:03 PM PST by TommyDale (Iran President Ahmadinejad is shorter than Tom Daschle!)
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