The new groupthink (reject appeasement re: Iraq!)

Townhall.com ^ | 11/27/2006 | Frank J. Gaffney, Jr.

[ConservativeDude]

What all these events have in common is the notion that the “solution” to Iraq lies in a “regional” approach."

Sure, why not. Worked great in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos.

[EternalHope]

Outstanding article.

Thanks for posting.

[Sword_Svalbardt]

Do nothing about these events is not a solution, you are right it was a good article. We have to be overly aggressive, we have to stay the course, and we have to deliver winable battles to devastate the enemy. Keep pressing, and soon they will whine with fatigue. These guys are not professional soldiers, they are nothing but undereducated fools toying withg other people's lives - they are vermin! Stamp them out!

[ConservativeDude]

This is an outstanding article.

I only agree with the liberals on one thing. If THIS is truly our end game, then, we probably shouldn't have bothered going into Iraq.

Going in was the right thing to do. It was and is in our self - interest....much more so than Vietnam (in retrospect). But, if we are just going to let the whole are go, then, we probably shouldn't have bothered.

Also, I can't help wondering, where is the commander in chief in all this? (But...you can't hardly blame him. The media has been on his ass from day one for Iraq, and the drum beat finally drove the GOP out of Congress [that plus a lot of other things]. So you can hardly blame GWB for punting on this and letting others call the shots. All things considered, I think he gave it his best shot and did some good).

[txhurl]

Jim Baker’s hostility towards the Jews is a matter of record and has endeared him to Israel’s foes in the region.

That's because he's a 'realist'.

Not an 'idealist', like most of us, who think Israel should be allowed to survive.

That's the new DBM stratification.

[ConservativeDude]

Don't you feel like sometimes we have a ferrari in the garage that we won't unleash, so it looks like we are getting whupped by a clunker with flat tires?

I guess one thing we can learn from this is that a President can't lead and protect our interest in foreign policy if he falls apart at home domestically. If you lose your base, and it causes you to lose elections, there is no way that you can effectively lead us in foreign policy. The two reals are not easily severed.

[SMARTY]

The survivors paid, big time and for as long as they survived. No one wants to remember that, though...Hanoi Jane is really quiet about that.

[ConservativeDude]

No one wants to remember that, though"

Incredible, isn't it?

I guess 3 million dead doesn't make much noise after awhile. Things just sort of go silent.

[spacejunkie]

What's the author mean about Baker's known dislike for Jews? Very disturbing to read this article.

[SMARTY]

"If THIS is truly our end game, then, we probably shouldn't have bothered going into Iraq."

Don't buy that one. It's what they want you to believe.

It took gargantuan stones to go in there, and it will take bigger ones to stay. It's unfortunate that the Liberals have been able to so far manipulate the facts and sway the MSM to their own views. Since Liberals sold themselves to the enemies of the US long ago, their moral capitulation has been absolutely complete and permanent for so long that they cannot even comprehend the kind of commitment the present administration demonstrated. Liberals are truly the 'fat lazy cattle' terrorists accuse all Westerners of being, and play perfectly to the terrorists cause. I am truly heartsick to think that the US would forfeit the many and needed reforms ours and coalition efforts there have won.

[bombthrower]

I was thinking recently of our education system in this country. Through middle school, or 8th grade, we really spend more time on teaching self esteem and being "nice." And we spend time teaching kids not to be competitive- no winners or losers at earlier ages. This all has a nice sound to it but has been carried too far for when it is time to live in the real world our country is not willing to do what it takes, ie be competitive, in a war. We are too willing to fall back on being "nice." This has been festering for some time and the chickens are coming home to roost. My guess is someday the population WILL be willing to do what it takes to WIN. But that will be after an unimaginable horror.

[Rummyfan]

Have to agree with Rush here....

No one is talking about winning or victory. All seem to be waiting for the Baker Commission report or talking various forms of cutting and running. All better realize that we are there to stay for the foreseeable future. Rumors that the report will suggest dialogue with Syria and Iran are depressing. To talk with Syria and Iran about resolving problems in Iraq is ludicrous - these two states are the main fomenters of the troubles in Iraq, and a free, democratic, peaceful Iraq is antithetical to their interests.

Further, the 'civil war' ... what are we supposed to do about it? Sunni killing Shiite and vice versa is an Iraqi problem. Should our guys insert themselves into the crossfire? I think not! Saddam's gone (it would be better if he had already been executed). What we must prevent is the formation of a hard-line islamic state in his absence.

[MNJohnnie]

No we aren't. IF the usual collection of Dincons and Appeasement Now Leftist would simply shut up and actually listen to people like Gen Abizaid who came back from Iraq two weeks ago to tell the US Senate the facts on Iraq. But as usual the they simply cling to their opinions and political dogmas and ignore all facts on Iraq that do not conform to their preconceived notions that does not coform to their feelings on the issue.

Yes their is a group think going on about Iraq. It is the groups think being demonstrated by this author, and the rest of the Junk Media, who arrogantly refuse to learn even a single fact about Iraq.

[MNJohnnie]

No what we need is supposedly Conservative commentators to quit mindlessly repeating the Junk Media's group think on Iraq, actually take the time to learn the facts and grow the spine needed to speak truth to the Media Establishment whiners.

Instead of mindlessly repeating the noise machines nonsense, Conservative should grow a pair and start telling them what complete idiots they are on the topic of Iraq. For example. Here is a whole bunch of data that completely refutes the noise machines propaganda on Iraq. Do you think you will EVER see any of this reported by the Junk Media? No because it does not validate their group think on Iraq they simply ignore it.

[MNJohnnie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Security_Forces

http://icasualties.org/oif/

http://icasualties.org/oif/IraqiDeaths.aspx

[Txsleuth]

bttt

[ConservativeDude]

Problem is, if we go in, and then let it all go to rot (which is essentially what the regional solution is all about), then we look weak. We aren't weak, but it hurts us to look that way. I'm also talking purely hypothetically here. IF we had known this would be the end game, THEN it would have been better not to do it. But we don't have that luxury. We have to live in the real world.

I agree entirely that the current administration showed some tremendous resolve on this front. They did the right thing. It's just that with the entire world, and half of American against them, they couldn't finish the job.

Now, we are going to have people on the rooftops of our embassy going out by helicopter and Syria and Iran are going to carve up Iraq according to their whims and factions. The only good news will be that at least a few muslims will be killing other muslims.

At the end of the day, though, cutting and running which was brought about not by GWB but by the Dems and the media and the rest of the world, will hurt us very badly.

[ConservativeDude]

The worldview of liberals and the educational stablishment are all-pervasive, for sure. Another factor at work here is the hatred of Christianity has grown so intense that a large percentage of America and almost all of Europe prefers Islam to Christianity and so they are fine with just inviting them in (even though liberals will get killed a lot faster than we will).

[SMARTY]

". IF we had known this would be the end game, THEN it would have been better ..."

But, the President DID know and of course was not and is not so naive as to expect support from his political opponents at first when we deployed, or later when successes were obvious or subsequently when reverses were so frequent and violent. Knowing all this ahead of time and forging ahead is exactly when action in the face of such obstacles is properly called commitment and courage. I know that commitment and courage are really 'old fashioned' ideas, but that is what it took to initiate the plan and what (if commitment and courage are genuine) will be needed to continue. How if the American colonists decided, half way through their struggle, "well...I changed my mind" ?? That is NOT how commitment works.