Goodbye Justice, Hello Happiness

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/DeakinLRev/2005/2.html ^ | David Myers

[tpaine]

Finally, if you can't see that liberty is not the same as license, then there is no point in arguing with you. You are beyond any logic or reason.

You insisted that I confuse liberty with license. -- I don't.

And you claimed that, "-- unfortunately, license undermines liberty --"
Yep, thats the line, - if you want to license liberty. -- I don't. Do you?

I am using "license" in the sense of "lack of due restraint, excessive freedom," which is one of its dictionary defitions.

So am I. You think some of our freedoms are "excessive", and need to be licensed, -- I don't. - Nor does our Constitution enumerate those that can be restrained.

You are playing a little game of semantics. You know what I mean, but you are distorting my meaning.

I know all to well what majority rule statism means.. We see it all about us, replacing our Constitutional freedoms with restraints & prohibitions unauthorized by the document.

The existence of red light districts was, in fact, an admission that such establishments did not belong within the community proper.

A point not at issue. Zoning is an agreed upon method of controlling the public aspects of 'vice'. Its Constitutional.

It is not proof that Americans who lived 100 years ago approved of what went on inside those establishments.

Constitutionally speaking, you & society have no 'approval power' over what goes on inside private establishments. - The police powers of States do not extend to prohibiting the non-violent 'vices' of private acts between consenting adults.

I find it telling that you think rights can be "granted" by society.
Apparently you disagree with our founding principle that we are all equally endowed with inalienable rights to life liberty & property, rights we cannot be deprived of without due process of law. Can you say it isn't so?

You are putting a lot of words in my mouth. I am not saying that rights are granted by society. I am not denying that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are God given rights (not Constitution-given rights).
But I am saying that when individual rights are exalted over every other consideration, when the needs and wants of the individual become paramount even over the public good, then any number of demands can be categorized as "rights."

Ah yes, the "public good". Communitarianism/socialism.

And there is no way for us as a society to determine which of these rights, which, in the opinion of their supporters, all fall under the category of "liberty" or "pursuit of happiness," are really rights and which are not.
If you can't understand this, there is no point in continuing this debate.

I understand your position all too well, and have been fighting it my entire adult life.. Thanks for letting me make that clear.

[Landru]

"We were excelling at making a living but too often failing at making a life. We celebrated our prosperity but yearned for purpose. We cherished our freedoms but longed for connection. In an age of plenty, we were feeling spiritual hunger."

Mighty powerful words, all true & beyond debate.

Another powerful thought: "...100 years ago, individuals in the USA were significantly more 'free', - and more responsible."

And more: "When the individual's right to pursue happiness becomes more important than his duty to the community, then justice suffers."

Amen.

"Rattle them chains."

Yea.

This piece has really provoked some serious & profound thoughts with me. Actually validated many oddities I've witnessed happening in our beloved Republic, but, couldn't quite describe.

Thanks for directing me over here, tp.
Glad to hell I didn't blow it off, it was exactly what I needed to read at the right time. ;^)

...
-BTTT-

[tpaine]

steadfastconservative wrote: -- "When the individual's right to pursue happiness becomes more important than his duty to the community, then justice suffers."

Landru:
This piece has really provoked some serious & profound thoughts with me. Actually validated many oddities I've witnessed happening in our beloved Republic, but, couldn't quite describe.

Yep, the "odd" insidious aspects of the communitarian philosophy have taken root in our Republic, -- as we see in the above idea that our 'duty' to community/society should trump our rights to life, liberty, happiness or property.

Thanks for directing me over here, tp. Glad to hell I didn't blow it off, it was exactly what I needed to read at the right time. ;^) ...
-BTTT-

Thanks for the bump.
The election results clearly show the need to know our enemy, and a failure to define the issues.

[Landru]

"Yep, the "odd" insidious aspects of the communitarian philosophy have taken root in our Republic, -- as we see in the above idea that our 'duty' to community/society should trump our rights to life, liberty, happiness or property...The election results clearly show the need to know our enemy, and a failure to define the issues."

They'll never *get it*, ever.

Right now the Libertarians are being attacked -- blamed for the GOP loss, no less :o) -- on another thread (I pinged you to), tp.
Surreal.

Nope, they just won't and don't get it and as long as they continue they'll be at the root of their own misery.

...-BTTT-