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The New Atheists: Researchers Crusade against American Fundamentalists (EuroPress Alert)
Der Spiegel Online ^ | October 26, 2006 | Jörg Blech

Posted on 10/28/2006 8:46:36 PM PDT by Jacob Kell

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To: Just mythoughts

THe "original Hebrew" is not the "original language" of Genesis. It must necessarily have been handed down in something comprehensible at Babel, right?


101 posted on 10/29/2006 11:51:23 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Why should I do anything at all? I had nothing to do with your plight, and if I walk on by what is it to you?

The attitude your post expresses, that people who don't believe in your religion are less than you, has historically lead to some of the most disgusting and barbaric treatment of other humans in history. Today, you people just try to violate the First Amendment.

102 posted on 10/29/2006 11:52:11 AM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: Just mythoughts
Were you to KNOW and understand what is actually said in that original Hebrew, penned not by some dumb sheep herder as suggested by some, you and I would not be having this conversation.

In other words, if I was as brainwashed as you, I'd be brainwashed, too.

Moses penned Genesis and he was raised under the Egyptian Pharaoh, not quite the picture of some dumb sheep herder as like to be presented by some opposed to the Genesis instruction.

LOL... Of course, one has to actually believe the Moses was real.

103 posted on 10/29/2006 11:52:24 AM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: WildHorseCrash
Why? An axiom is simply another element in a system of "truths" that have been laid out. For example plain geometry has a series of axioms. Learn the axioms and you can prove theorems. Prove theorems and you can design stuff that fits, more or less, in the real world.

So, why should we set an axiom that killing each other is bad? Don't you taste good or what.

104 posted on 10/29/2006 11:55:10 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Do you have evidence that we do, in fact, die (at the level of consciousness).

The fact that there is no consciousness without neural activity is my first clue.

That and the simple fact that harps, clouds, and magical invisible patriarchs are patently ridiculous.

105 posted on 10/29/2006 11:56:10 AM PST by Wormwood (Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter because nobody listens.)
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To: WildHorseCrash
And what people would that be? You're the one telling me I ought to abandon my religion and adopt something else. Still waiting for the first reason why I should do so, and if I did, why shouldn't I just walk on by and leave you alone?

Am I my brother's keeper or what.

106 posted on 10/29/2006 11:57:04 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: WildHorseCrash
You know, so few people of the ancient world were ever named in a document of any kind that if we took your attitude toward them we'd be totally mystified how it was they got around to building cities.

Moses said he existed, and given that such information is so rare, I'll accept that he existed, or another guy with the same name existed.

107 posted on 10/29/2006 11:58:51 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Wormwood

YOu, in fact, do not know that there is no consciousness without neural activity. You cannot demonstrate that. In fact, let me go this far ~ no one knows where the seat of consciousness resides, and that's a scientific fact!


108 posted on 10/29/2006 12:00:16 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Indian Great Apes ~ probably moved back and forth, back and forth, many times over the ages. Just a matter of finding the skeletons.

Nope. We are African Great Apes. The genus homo arose in Africa, as did our species. There's no such thing as an "Indian Great Ape."

Now, what was it you were saying Christianity, or religion in general, REQUIRES of us?

I'm saying that religious people who have the mindset I described are not self-reflective, because they reject science because their religion requires it, without even recognizing the stupidity of doing so.

109 posted on 10/29/2006 12:00:40 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: muawiyah
There is a Christian Doctrine referred to as "amnesty from Oblivion". This is the doctrine that recognizes that God spoke to man in different forms and different ways in past times.

It's the very reason we don't spend a lot of time condemning the ancient Greeks or Romans, or even today's Hindus.

How nice of you. I'm sure they're happy that you don't treat them as, for example, the Catholics and Protestants have treated each other over the years. Of course, it just may be that they're right and every "Christian Doctrine" is meaningless...

110 posted on 10/29/2006 12:02:24 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: WildHorseCrash
Alas, you didn't describe a mindset. YOu simply identified religion as the source of your discomfort.

You have a way out of the dilemma, and without accepting any of the axioms of any religion, or even one of those so-called ethical systems.

111 posted on 10/29/2006 12:02:49 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Why? An axiom is simply another element in a system of "truths" that have been laid out. For example plain geometry has a series of axioms. Learn the axioms and you can prove theorems. Prove theorems and you can design stuff that fits, more or less, in the real world.

That it was an accepted basis for the conversation goes to why it was not a fallacy.

So, why should we set an axiom that killing each other is bad? Don't you taste good or what.

Enlightened self-interest. Reciprocal altruism. The fact that we've evolved as social beings for whom cooperative behavior led to increased reproductive success.

112 posted on 10/29/2006 12:08:10 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: WildHorseCrash
The Catholics developed the doctrine of "amnesty from Oblivion". You probably never heard of it because it's not preached as a "church doctrine" by Protestants ~ after all, Protestants tend to not have "church doctrines" ~ simply "Biblical doctrines".

I think some Catholics a long time ago put a lot of thought to the matter and came to the realization that God probably always speaks the truth to mankind, but mankind has difficulty hearing God. God, on the other hand, is always available to hear us.

It's up to us to figure out what He's saying, and sometimes human beings make mistakes ~ that does not negate the message God sent, nor condemn all the folks He was trying to reach to a humorless Episcopalean Hell filled with rude waiters and sloppy chefs.

113 posted on 10/29/2006 12:08:25 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
And what people would that be? You're the one telling me I ought to abandon my religion and adopt something else. Still waiting for the first reason why I should do so, and if I did, why shouldn't I just walk on by and leave you alone?

No, I'm not telling you to do anything. Believe what you want. Just don't try to impose those beliefs on anybody else, get the government to enact them into law or punish those people who disagree with you. There are lots of people believing ridiculous ideas. So long as they don't try to make me believe them, I don't care what they do.

114 posted on 10/29/2006 12:10:09 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: gidget7
What is a crutch anyway? With out it the individual would be a dependant. Faith in something larger is empowering. That's a problem?
115 posted on 10/29/2006 12:10:29 PM PST by oyez (Why is it that egalitarians act like royalty?)
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To: muawiyah
You know, so few people of the ancient world were ever named in a document of any kind that if we took your attitude toward them we'd be totally mystified how it was they got around to building cities.

Wow. Gilgamesh was named in ancient documents. So were Apollo, Zeus, Uhuru Mazda, Oedipus, etc., etc. You think they were all real, too?

Moses said he existed, and given that such information is so rare, I'll accept that he existed, or another guy with the same name existed.

In Moby Dick, the narrator said, "Call me Ishmael." Do you think he existed, too?

116 posted on 10/29/2006 12:14:29 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: WildHorseCrash
Hey, I can still have all the reproductive success I can handle and yet have you over for dinner with enough left over for the week.

It simply doesn't require enlightened self-interest to have sex or dine well.

117 posted on 10/29/2006 12:18:33 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Alas, you didn't describe a mindset. YOu simply identified religion as the source of your discomfort.

See Post 82:

The "God said it; I believe it; that settles it" mindset rejects the fact that humans are descended from non-human primates and blinds them to the fact that they are shutting out science because of their religion.
You have a way out of the dilemma, and without accepting any of the axioms of any religion, or even one of those so-called ethical systems.

I don't see any dilemma here, but, please, enlighten me.

118 posted on 10/29/2006 12:19:19 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: WildHorseCrash

Nobody said Zeus was "people" ~


119 posted on 10/29/2006 12:20:28 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: WildHorseCrash

YOu said you are "WildHorseCrash". Now, prove to me that you are real.


120 posted on 10/29/2006 12:21:26 PM PST by muawiyah
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