West Point opens Islamic worship space as Muslim cadets increase

Newsday.com ^ | 10/22/06 | Newsday.com

[EnochPowellWasRight]

"Hey! Dhimmi Dick! "

He's not a dhimmi, just a bit of a sea lawyer.

Unfortunately he's right about one thing: in the current climate in this country, Islam is not officially considered a threat by the powers that be, so laws that can be applied to a political movement that teaches the overthrow of the Constitution are not so applied. It IS a threat, but they don't want to see it.

[Liberty Valance]

Simply saying it's "sick" indicates a lack of depth in thought for or against the issue.

vs

Might not be deep enough but very illustrative.

[Caesar Soze]

If you're writing a novel, come up with you're [sic] own plot.

I'm not writing a novel. I am analyzing threats based on indicators, doctrine, friendly vulnerabilities, and lessons learned. I'd love to send a SITREP to USMA alerting them of a credible threat. But so far, no one on this thread has been able to develop a likely enemy course of action based on facts and reasonable assumptions. That leads me to believe such an ECOA is not likely. The identification of this "enemy" itself is very much in doubt.

If you can identify a threat without my help, I encourage you to contact your representative and senators to effect legislative relief; if the threat is more immediate, contact the Federal Bureau of Investigation at https://tips.fbi.gov. If you do anything less, you are complicit in whatever crimes you think are going to happen.

I know history repeats itself and muslim history is not pretty.

Nor are Christian history, Jewish history, pagan history, Shinto history, Confucian history, or atheist history. History in general is an unlovely thing. Fortunately, America operates on matters more substantive than vague, selective allusions to history. That's the kind of thinking you get from bearded men in caves who rant about Andalusia.

[word_warrior_bob]

And as a percentage, what would THEY be, microscopic.

There is a HISTORY of terrorists joining the armed forces, out of this new batch, I put my over/under at 33% traitors/spies, etc.

Just my opinion.

[evad]

You are spouting off to the wrong crowd.

Sorry to disappoint but it's you that's spouting off to the wrong crowd.

You ride into this thread hurling insults like the hydra from hell and then have the nerve to claim to be a Christian. In all my years of observing neurotics and psychotics, you take the cake. A more classic case of penis envy has never been demonstrated than your complete lack of couth or civility.

The good news for you is it's treatable. Seek help....soon.

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

Here's how it works:

If American Muslims don't join the military, they're not patriots. If American Muslims DO join the military, they're infiltrators. No logic or reason required; indeed, any attempt to use logic or reason makes one suspect.

[EnochPowellWasRight]

"No logic or reason required; indeed, any attempt to use logic or reason makes one suspect."

If they aren't a threat, they aren't really Muslim - just "culturally" Muslim. Of course, you assume that such a statement lacks "reason" or "logic". Perhaps conservatives just aren't "nuanced" enough for you.

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

If they aren't a threat, they aren't really Muslim - just "culturally" Muslim.

In other words, you take it upon yourself to decide who is and isn't a Muslim. The arrogance is on a par with an Orthodox Rabbi deciding who is and isn't a Christian.

Perhaps conservatives just aren't "nuanced" enough for you.

You are about as conservative as Jerry Brown supporter Michael Wiener, or Nancy Pelosi. You act like a liberal's caricature of a conservative.

[EnochPowellWasRight]

"In other words, you take it upon yourself to decide who is and isn't a Muslim. "

No, I take it from the Koran and the Hadiths.

"You are about as conservative as Jerry Brown supporter Michael Wiener, or Nancy Pelosi. You act like a liberal's caricature of a conservative."

Perhaps you just don't understand what and how conservatives think.

[philetus]

Current conflicts and wars:

It is important to realize that most of the world's current "hot spots" have a complex interaction of economic, racial, ethnic, religious, and other factors. We list below some conflicts which have as their base at least some degree of religious intolerance:

It is important to realize that most of the world's current "hot spots" have a complex interaction of economic, racial, ethnic, religious, and other factors. We list below some conflicts which have as their base at least some degree of religious intolerance:

Country	Main religious groups involved	Type of conflict
Afghanistan	Extreme, radical Fundamentalist Muslim terrorist groups & non-Muslims	Osama bin Laden heads a terrorist group called Al Quada (The Source) whose headquarters were in Afghanistan. They were protected by, and integrated with, the Taliban dictatorship in the country. The Northern Alliance of rebel Afghans, Britain and the U.S. attacked the Taliban and Al Quada, establishing a new regime in part of the country. The fighting continues
Bosnia	Serbian Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholic), Muslims	Fragile peace is holding, due only to the presence of peacekeepers. 2
Côte d'Ivoire	Muslims, Indigenous, Christian	Following the elections in late 2000, government security forces "began targeting civilians solely and explicitly on the basis of their religion, ethnic group, or national origin. The overwhelming majority of victims come from the largely Muslim north of the country, or are immigrants or the descendants of immigrants..." 5 A military uprising continued the slaughter in 2002.
Cyprus	Christians & Muslims	The island is partitioned, creating enclaves for ethnic Greeks (Christians) and Turks (Muslims). A UN peace keeping force is maintaining stability.
East Timor	Christians & Muslims	A Roman Catholic country. About 20% of the  population died by murder, starvation or disease after they were forcibly annexed by Indonesia (mainly Muslim). After voting for independence, many Christians were exterminated or exiled by the Indonesian army and army-funded militias in a carefully planned program of genocide and religious cleansing. The situation is now stable.
India	Animists, Hindus, Muslims & Sikhs	Various conflicts that heat up periodically producing loss of life.
Indonesia, province of Ambon	Christians & Muslims	After centuries of relative peace, conflicts between Christians and Muslims started during 1999-JUL in this province of Indonesia. The situation now appears to be stable.
Indonesia, province of Halmahera	Christians & Muslims	30 people killed. 2,000 Christians driven out; homes and churches destroyed.
Iraq	Kurds, Shiite Muslims, Sunni Muslims, western armed forces	By mid-2006, a small scale civil war, primarily between Shiite and Sunni Muslims started. The situation appears to be steadily degenerating.
Kashmir	Hindus & Muslims	A chronically unstable region of the world, claimed by both Pakistan and India. The availability of nuclear weapons and the eagerness to use them are destabilizing the region further. More details Thirty to sixty thousand people have died since 1989.
Kosovo	Serbian Orthodox Christians & Muslims	Peace enforced by NATO peacekeepers. There is convincing evidence of past mass murder by Yugoslavian government (mainly Serbian Orthodox Christians) against ethnic Albanians (mostly Muslim) Full story
Kurdistan	Christians, Muslims	Assaults on Christians (Protestant, Chaldean Catholic, & Assyrian Orthodox). Bombing campaign underway.
Macedonia	Macedonian Orthodox Christians & Muslims	Muslims (often referred to as ethnic Albanians) engaged in a civil war with the rest of the country who are primarily Macedonian Orthodox Christians. A peace treaty has been signed. Disarmament by NATO is complete.
Middle East	Jews, Muslims, & Christians	The peace process between Israel and Palestine suffered a complete breakdown. This has resulted in the deaths of thousands, in the ratio of three dead for each Jew.  Major strife broke out in 2000-SEP. Major battle in Lebanon during mid-2006. No resolution appears possible.
Nigeria	Christians, Animists, & Muslims	Yourubas and Christians in the south of the country are battling Muslims in the north. Country is struggling towards democracy after decades of Muslim military dictatorships. More details
Northern Ireland	Protestants, Catholics	After 3,600 killings and assassinations over 30 years, some progress has been made in the form of a ceasefire and an independent status for the country.
Pakistan	Suni & Shi'ite Muslims	Low level mutual attacks.
Philippines	Christians & Muslims	A low level conflict between the mainly Christian central government and Muslims in the south of the country has continued for centuries. More details
Russia, Chechnya	Russian Orthodox Christians, Muslims	The Russian army attacked the breakaway region. Many atrocities have been alleged on both sides. According to the Voice of the Martyrs: "In January 2002 Chechen rebels included all Christians on their list of official enemies, vowing to 'blow up every church and mission-related facility in Russia'." 7
South Africa	Animists & "Witches"	Hundreds of persons, suspected and accused of witches practicing black magic, are murdered each year.
Sri Lanka	Buddhists & Hindus	Tamils (a mainly Hindu 18% minority) are involved in a war for independence since 1983 with the rest of the country (70% Sinhalese Buddhist). Hundreds of thousands have been killed. The conflict took a sudden change for the better in 2002-SEP, when the Tamils dropped their demand for complete independence. The South Asian Tsunami in 2004-DEC induced some cooperation. The situation in mid-2006 is degenerating.
Sudan	Animists, Christians & Muslims	Complex ethnic, racial, religious conflict in which the Muslim regime has committed genocide against both Animists and Christians in the south of the country. Slavery and near slavery practiced. A ceasefire was signed in 2006-MAY between some of the combatants. 3 Warfare continues.
Thailand	Buddhists & Muslims	Muslim rebels have been involved in a bloody insurgency in southern Thailand -- a country that is 95% Buddhist. The army has seized power and has agreed to talks with the rebels.
Tibet	Buddhists & Communists	Country was annexed by Chinese Communists in late 1950's. Brutal suppression of Buddhism continues. *
Uganda	Animists, Christians, & Muslims	Christian rebels of the Lord's Resistance Army are conducting a civil war in the north of Uganda. Their goal is a Christian theocracy whose laws are based on the Ten Commandments. They abduct, enslave and/or raped about 2,000 children a year. 6

* We are defining "religion" rather loosely here to include Communism.

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Changes: 

	1999-JUN: NATO/U.N. forces occupied Kosovo and ended the genocide by Serbian Orthodox against ethnic Albanians (mostly Muslims). Most Serbians left Kosovo. Those remaining are being harassed; some have been murdered in retaliation for past crimes.
	1999-JUL: Nigeria added to list.
	1999-SEP: Ambon added to the list.
	1999-OCT: Chechnya added to the list.
	2001-MAR: Macedonia added to the list. The conflict has since cooled, and a political solution reached.
	2001-AUG: Côte d'Ivoire added to the list.
	2001-SEP: Radical, extremist Fundamentalist Muslims centered in Afghanistan attack New York City and Washington. U.S. and Britain invade the country. The extreme Fundamentalist Muslim government, the Taliban, were later overthrown and a new government installed.
	2002-FEB: Muslim - Hindu conflict heats up in India, focused on Kashmir.
	2002-SEP: Conservative Christians continue civil war in Uganda.
	2002-SEP: Hope emerged in the Hindu-Buddhist conflict in Sri Lanka, the former Ceylon. The Tamil Tigers dropped their goal of independence when peace talks resumed during 2002-SEP after an absence of seven years. They are now willing to establish a homeland within the country.
	2003-JAN: A coalition, largely made up of American and British forces attacks Iraq. This eventually triggers a civil war, mainly between Sunni and Shiite Muslims.
	2004 & 2005: Little change occurs, as existing conflicts continue.
	2006-MAY: A ceasefire was signed in Sudan between most of the warring factions. If it holds, the genocide there will probably downscale into mass murder.
	2006-AUG: The situation in Sri Lanka appears to be degenerating.
	2006-OCT: Thailand added.

[ScubieNuc]

"THERE IS NO LAW IN THE UNITED STATES THAT ALLOWS WEST POINT, THE ENTIRE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, OR ANY PUBLIC AGENCY TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST MUSLIMS."

That is a good point, however it is still RIDICULOUS!!! America has been sucker punched multiple times by Muslim extremists and we are so "PC" that we want to fight them without hurting their feelings. After 9/11 there should have been a coordinated effort to pass laws against Muslims, but NOOOOO that would be discrimination.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not for imprisoning Muslims who have not committed any crimes, but continuing to allow them to attend our military academies...PLEASE!

This war on "terrorism" is really a war on Islam. Until we realize who our enemy is, we can not defeat him. Islam produces two "fruits" (if you will) good and evil. The good fruits are easily turned into bad fruits, and the bad fruits never turn good. If you kill the whole tree, the truly good fruits will continue to seek good. The evil will just expose themselves more openly.

How do you defeat Islam? Nuke Mecca and Medina. It shows that their god is neutered and can't protect his most sacred cities, and it prevents Muslims from doing their Hadj. Until something drastic like that is done, we will be at war with Muslims for centuries.

BTW, I don't hate Muslims, I distrust them. I recognize that we are at war with them and their religion, and if we truly want to win this war we need to start recognizing the truth about who the enemy of America and freedom truly is.

[acapesket]

I apologize to all for losing my temper, that dick part of the comment was uncalled for and I felt badly as soon as I hit "post".
I just wish Americans would wake up, read the Quran, Realize that we are up against 1,5 Billion people who follow this cult. Even if a third of them are radicalised.
We are screwed.
Political Correctness is social suicide.

[linda_22003]

From Wikipedia (not an authoritative source, but close enough for a minor posting): "It has been erroneously reported that Leonard Jerome acquired a majority shareholding in the New York Times newspaper, though in actuality the New York Times was founded in 1851 by Henry Jarvis Raymond and George Jones, and later acquired by Adolph Ochs in 1896. He was known as a flamboyant and successful stock speculator, having made and lost several fortunes, he was known as "The King of Wall Street". He had pecuniary interests in a number of railway companies. A patron of the arts, he was the founder of the American Academy of Music. Jerome was also an avid sportsman and enjoyed yachting with his friend, William Kissam Vanderbilt, but he had a special passion for thoroughbred horse racing. He helped establish the American Jockey Club and built the Jerome Park Racetrack in the Bronx in conjunction with financier August Belmont, Sr. where the first Belmont Stakes was held in 1867. A resident of Brooklyn, he was also responsible for the construction of the Sheepshead Bay racetrack which hosted meets for the Coney Island Jockey Club." And Jennie was a major babe.

[linda_22003]

i just get a red X, so if you can't see the jpg, try this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ac/JennieJerome.jpeg

It's worth it.

[evad]

I apologize to all for losing my temper..

Accepted.

Now, let's get on with the legitimate debate.

[EnochPowellWasRight]

Thanks for the correct on her father's businesses.

" And Jennie was a major babe."

I understand she was very popular and a bit, how shall we say it? - friendly. ;)

[EnochPowellWasRight]

Thanks for the correct on her father's businesses.

" And Jennie was a major babe."

I understand she was very popular and a bit, how shall we say it? - friendly. ;)

[linda_22003]

She was one of the professional "beauties" of the age; their pictures were displayed in London photographers' shops. Sort of a "British Idol", before television. She had her admirers, but she wasn't the one who brought syphilis into the family. That was her husband, Randolph.

[onja]

So... I'll start over and try and understand the other side's point.

All Muslims are to be distrusted and are enemies. And Islam is not a religion; just a political system.

Could anyone explain these statements to me? The discussion won't get anywhere when the two sides have fundamentally different views on these two statements.