Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

I was surprised to not see this posted here yet.

I cannot agree with the author's title, but the article is very interesting nonetheless.

1 posted on 10/08/2006 7:11:48 AM PDT by Axhandle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-39 last
To: Axhandle

Rome wasn't built in a day, Mr. Pressfield.


29 posted on 10/08/2006 8:11:37 AM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle
Democracy and Islam do not coexist well.
32 posted on 10/08/2006 8:16:02 AM PDT by ßuddaßudd (7 days - 7 ways Guero » with a floating, shifting, ever changing persona....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle

A Representative Republic will do.


34 posted on 10/08/2006 8:17:21 AM PDT by Recovering Hermit (There's another old saying Senator..."Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle

Tribalism?

No problem. Simple answer: Reservations.

Followed by Casinos and cheap smokes.


35 posted on 10/08/2006 8:17:29 AM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Naziism was in 1937.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle

Who cares about Arab democracy? I just want them pacified and removed from the equation. When they are ready to join the 19th Century, let alone the 21st, they can let us know.


38 posted on 10/08/2006 8:25:24 AM PDT by montag813
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle

There is a Darwinism to ideas. The good idea will invariably push out the bad one, no matter how much the believers in the bad idea fervently pray that it dominate.

Socialism is an excellent example of a Darwinistic loser.

Fortunately, successful systems of organization are pretty rare, and for the time being, we can see most of them coexisting on Earth at the same time.

To begin with is familial organization, never complete chaos. But families soon expand and have to interbreed. From that point on, they must exist in a tribal organization, the lowest order of real organization.

This is because tribes perform the essential role of government, by the definition of Adam Smith, providing for external security and internal order.

However, tribes have structural limitations as to how many members they may have, so you are faced with the need for a multi-tribal authority.

Enter codified legal systems like Sharia law. When they are needed to act as a government of different tribes, they are very useful and very popular. This is because they are so much more efficient than tribal custom.

But this is overcome with urbanization, and the loss of tribal affiliation. Sharia works when your organization is based on tribal leaders meeting in jurga. But when tribes wither away, it is overcome by the best system of government ever devised.

Democracy.

I will note that many of the wiser tribal leaders in Iraq see the superiority of democracy over tribal custom, and even Sharia law. It is so obvious to them, as leaders, that they have expressed a willingness to cede their tribal authority to the democratically elected government.

In doing so, they are doing the best they can for their tribe, because in democracy, they see their tribe benefitting far more in all ways than they as tribal leaders could bring about.

I distictly omitted another phase of organization that happened in the western world, feudalism, because it parallels Sharia law as another system by which diverse tribes can cooperate to mutual advantage. But both feudalism and Sharia law are outmoded; neither have a place in a modern country anymore.

In those few nations that try to have both a secular law and Sharia, it is a disaster, and cannot survive. Because a nation, like a man, cannot have two masters. So either elements of Sharia will become part of that nations secular law, as interpreted by secular judges, or Sharia will fade away.


40 posted on 10/08/2006 8:28:58 AM PDT by Popocatapetl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle

Another arrogant Liberal "intellectual" who thinks "little brown people" are too stupid to understand the benefits of democracy and freedom.


41 posted on 10/08/2006 8:29:35 AM PDT by FlingWingFlyer ("Today we march, tomorrow we vote!" The illegal aliens won't be "staying home" on Nov. 7th.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle

This Scottish clansman is here to tell you that this article is a bunch of B.S.!


44 posted on 10/08/2006 8:38:55 AM PDT by CarryaBigStick
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle

There has been democracy in the Middle East in spite of this
history. In the 1950's Lebanon was a democracy and could be now. When the Middle Eastern "man in the street" sees this
freedom existing in a neighboring country it certainly affects him.


45 posted on 10/08/2006 8:40:11 AM PDT by upcountryhorseman (An old fashioned conservative)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle

The "tribalism" of Iraq can disappear in a single generation. Liberals will be forced to accept this truth as it unfolds before their eyes.

And then liberals will pretend they were never opposed to it in the first place.

Thank you, President Bush.


46 posted on 10/08/2006 8:41:25 AM PDT by reasonisfaith (Leftists will never stand up like men and admit their true beliefs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle
Okay, then let's get revenge for 9-11 and all the other attacks on our country.

Instead of trying to play 'nice' let's just kill the SOBs.

49 posted on 10/08/2006 8:45:38 AM PDT by DCPatriot ("It aint what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that aint so" Theodore Sturgeon)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle
According to this article, democracy shouldn't have happened anywhere then, because tribalism was not limited to the ME.

The reason we do not see democracy in the ME is because Islam destroyed any hopes of it developing there. It stagnated the region and held it back in the 7th century.
50 posted on 10/08/2006 8:48:28 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle
Extremist Islam is merely an overlay (and a recent one at that) atop the primal, unchanging mind-set of the East, which is tribalism, and its constituent individual, the tribesman.

The problem if MidEast tribalism is no secret, but the significance of Islam in this myopic writer's view is misnderstood. Far more than a "mere overlay," it is the glue which keeps the tribes in place as the intermediate source of social control. Without the pre- and pro-scriptions of Islam, the tribes would be easy prey to westernizing influences, and would soon have only nominal, vestigial control. It's one thing to hold out against Alexander's army. To resist the blandishments of materialistic Western affluence is a horse of a different color entirely. Only a super-ordinate set of sanctions such as provided by islam make it possible.

55 posted on 10/08/2006 9:07:22 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle
Extremist Islam is merely an overlay (and a recent one at that) atop the primal, unchanging mind-set of the East, which is tribalism, and its constituent individual, the tribesman.

The problem of MidEast tribalism is no secret, but the significance of Islam in this myopic writer's view is misnderstood. Far more than a "mere overlay," it is the glue which keeps the tribes in place as the intermediate source of social control. Without the pre- and pro-scriptions of Islam, the tribes would be easy prey to westernizing influences, and would soon have only nominal, vestigial control. It's one thing to hold out against Alexander's army. To resist the blandishments of materialistic Western affluence is a horse of a different color entirely. Only a super-ordinate set of sanctions such as provided by islam make it possible.

56 posted on 10/08/2006 9:07:47 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: stylecouncilor; windcliff

Values vs blood, ping.


60 posted on 10/08/2006 9:21:59 AM PDT by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle

Looks like ABC is trying to kiss-up to the libs after showing "The Path to 9/11".


69 posted on 10/08/2006 9:59:51 AM PDT by CyberAnt (Drive-By Media: Fake news, fake documents, fake polls)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle
racist claptrap. Where do these people come from. Its just a matter of history.

Yes, much of the middle east is dominated by tribal societies, but this is because until 100 years ago, these lands were literally wilderness. There is no economy, middle class or independent intellectual class. These things had been on the rise but reactionary Islam has gone back to work crushing them.

When Western Europe was completely dominated by religious rule and serfdom, we called this the dark ages. It took Europe hundreds of years and wars and horror to come up with the Magna Carta, the common law and the concept of individual freedom and freedom of conscience.

These concepts evolved and form the foundation of Western Civilization which has been under assault by all who wish to justify oppression and human suffering as a means to "order."

Nevertheless, people from the middle east come to the west and breath freedom and love it. Their kids, well sometimes they don't appreciate freedom the same.

This person essentially casts folks from the Middle East as lesser human beings who cannot find their way to loving freedom and justice. LAME.

75 posted on 10/08/2006 10:46:35 AM PDT by dalight
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle

Never say "never." But the problem is that you can't reliably produce democracy in countries that don't want it.


82 posted on 10/08/2006 1:06:42 PM PDT by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Axhandle
The writer has discovered what was once generally referred to as Orientalism in British and American writing.

Nothing new here, except for modern readers unacquainted with the classic literature on the subject.
91 posted on 10/08/2006 3:22:58 PM PDT by George W. Bush
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-39 last

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson