Has the bubble burst?

News and Review ^ | Sep 21 06 | Sasha Abramsky

[1035rep]

LOL.......I'm glad to see you figured it out. I was completely mystified as to what the "point" was.

[Howlin]

They're not that hard to figure out, are they?

[winodog]

Many smart people do dumb things. Thanks goodness we have smart people like you who have never done anything dumb in their life to advise the rest of us.

I like reading most of what you write here. You come up with facts and you debate very well. But you are not always right.

[GodGunsGuts]

If you mean that Toddsterpatriot never ever concedes a point even when he's wrong...Then you're right, he's a master debater.

[winodog]

That may be however Todd debates with facts and is good at it. Todd is a welcome addition to the thread.

Its the others whom have no facts. They just use name calling as debate tatics. Reminds me of liberals.

Be careful. There are one or two who have the power or will try to use what power they have to ban you from FR.

[GodGunsGuts]

Thanks. BTW, I just checked your FR page and used one of your links to learn how to post pictures. I always wondered how to do that! Here's my first attempt at it :o)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1706978/posts?page=164#164

PS Judging by your FR page links, we have a lot in common.

[winodog]

lol I still dont know how to post pics

[GodGunsGuts]

Well, thanks to your link, we're multiplying like rabbits :o)

[Toddsterpatriot]

Thanks goodness we have smart people like you who have never done anything dumb in their life to advise the rest of us.

You'll have to show me where I ever claimed that.

But you are not always right.

I have never claimed I was.

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you mean that Toddsterpatriot never ever concedes a point even when he's wrong...

Hey, it's my favorite gold clown. I don't suppose you have an example where I was wrong? Don't take too much energy looking. LOL!

[winodog]

You'll have to show me where I ever claimed that.

I doubt that you ever have Todd. I was just using Greenspun talk.

I have never claimed I was.

Pardon me if I went to far in describing what I appear your actions to be. I was trying to be a wiseass, nonetheless I am serious when I say that I respect your POV on this and other threads. You back up your words with facts. I just feel that Gold and RE can swing either way and I hope and pray that RE doesnt crash and gold holds steady. I dont make predictions. I just try to protect my meager savings.

[gogeo]

That is exactly what it is; it's a regional index. The bond market has gone international and the banking industry has since gone national, so the market moved away. It's not widely used at all anymore. I would expect that just about everyone who had an ARM with a COFI index has long since refinanced.

I'm assuming you have, also?

[Toddsterpatriot]

I was just using Greenspun talk.

Actually, he can talk for hours and never say a thing. In a few sentences you said quite a bit.

I am serious when I say that I respect your POV on this and other threads. You back up your words with facts.

Thank you. I try.

I just feel that Gold and RE can swing either way

Yes they can.

I dont make predictions.

It's safer not to. Especially on a public forum. Where you could open yourself to ridicule, like some here have done.

[gleeaikin]

Re: poverty, Marxism, the Middle Class, and stock options

Glad to hear about the holding period of stock options. So you are saying the top executives that bailed out of Enron before the fall had held their stock for several years?

I am currently researching a historical novel that takes place in 1902 and 1903 in the NY/NJ area among others, so I am becoming quite familiar with economic circumstances at that time. So if the middle class of that period (like my grandparents) were like today's poor, then the poor were absolutely destitute. Still the middle class was a lot smaller than it is today, and our middle class is definitely shrinking now. Just ask all the guys who lost $75-100,000 jobs in the past decade as they were sent to India or Ireland, and now feel lucky to get $35-40,000 jobs today. If concern about that is Marxism, then I guess conservative values are Facism.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Still the middle class was a lot smaller than it is today, and our middle class is definitely shrinking now.

How do you define middle class?

Is it shrinking because middle class people are getting poor? Or because middle class people are getting rich?

If concern about that is Marxism, then I guess conservative values are Facism.

Only if you're a lefty.

[nopardons]

You began with a generalization, now you've begun to make it more specific. And considering your constant, unending posts bout how awful President Bush is, how terrible the WOT is, how incompetent our military is, etc., most of us here would call your "morality" and "political" judgment are.

[GodGunsGuts]

Well seeing how it's one clown to another, perhaps we can adopt a policy of clowning around instead of insulting each other. I don't know about you, but I don't feel good about how I have treated you since this little tiff got started. I don't consider our tug and pull as a zero sum gain. Believe it or not, I have learned a thing or two since bumping into you on FR. I like a good verbal joust here and there. But I'm mainly interested in the truth. And I'm willing to believe the same about you. Is it possible for two different perspectives to learn from each other? Or to use (what must have been thought of at the time) an extreme example, is it possible that Hamilton and Jefferson could have learned something from their conflicting perspectives? If so, I would like to be friends. Make no mistake, I'm sure we will still have our contentious differences. But is it possible to have said differences and still treat other with a modicum of respect? When it's all said and done, I think we are by far and away on the same side. For instance, I put Kim Jong-il, Castro, and Hugo Chavez on one side, and you and I on the other. I also put the DNC on one side and the basket of ideas that constitutes the GOP on the other. Is it possible to keep in mind that when push comes to shove, you and I would put our differences aside and fight on the same side against our enemies? If so, I think it possible to change the tone of our interactions for the better--GGG

[nopardons]

No, she didn't do anything of the kind.

Howlin wasn't on this thread, yet YOU trashed her, didn't ping her, someone else, with much more netiquette pinged her, and that's how she came to be here.....to answer you. You are the one who has proved, yet once again, just what and who you are; the inciter of flame wars.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well seeing how it's one clown to another

See, this is where you lost me.

I don't know about you, but I don't feel good about how I have treated you since this little tiff got started.

Is this your way of saying you couldn't find a point where I was wrong?

[nopardons]

*banging my head, constantly, into a stone wall, whilst explaining the facts, over and over again*

First of all, CEOs' bonuses/golden parachutes, containing stock OPTIONS, have a waiting period, before said options CAN be executed. The free and clear ownership of stocks, means just that, they can be sold/traded, at any point in time.

I don't know what you are using as research material, but it obviously hasn't taught you anything.; If you are being honest, please contact me in private, and I'll give you some help for you book...in the form of book lists and where you SHOULD be doing your research.

Yes, compared to today's lower class, the middle class of 100 years ago WILL appear to be living far below TODAY'S poverty level; however, compared to that day's poor, they lived quite well. THE SIZE OF THE MIDDLE CLASS HAS GROWN, SINCE THE END OF WW II, THROUGH TODAY, AT A FURIOUDS PACE; IT IS NOT SHRINKING !

You need to study a LOT more historical data! You assume that people never before lost jobs or their savings.

Stop trying to be "cute" or even vaguely intelligent. No, Conservatism isn't "fascism"; OTOH, your constant class warfare and blinkered take on business, social strata, and money, IS pure, unadulterated MARXISM.