Chaplain enters plea at court-martial[UPDATE]

Associated Press ^ | Sep. 12, 2006 | SONJA BARISIC

[tobyhill]

It's unfortunate but unless the order was illegal he's guilty and in order to maintain order in the armed forces punishment must be administered.

[Bigh4u2]

Although what you say is true, the Chaplain should not be punished for showing his faith. Uniform or not.

Exceptions are made all the time, and in this case, their should be.

If not from the Commander, then from the Commander in Chief.

[Dubya]

I will be praying for him. Too bad a Christian is put in prison for praying. I guess if he was a peaceful Muslim it would be OK.

[Bigh4u2]

their = there..

[tobyhill]

I didn't say what the punishment had to be and it could be just the fact that he had to go through the court martial proceeding with a guilty find no further action.

[Bigh4u2]

The part I don't understand is, why not let him wear his uniform?

Soldiers in uniform show up at all kinds of events, including weddings (in churches), schools, even family outtings.
Why the discrimination?

"just the fact that he had to go through the court martial proceeding with a guilty find no further action."

Why tarnish his record with a guilty find?

There is no discriminary clause in the First Ammendment.

[tobyhill]

The military is not a Democracy and sometimes there's things that are asked of a military person that doesn't make sense to others but unless it's an illegal command it must be the command's way. When I was in the Army there was things almost on a daily basis that was requested that I questioned (in my own mind) but wasn't illegal so I had to do it.

[WorkingClassFilth]

the Evangelical Episcopal priest went on an 18-day hunger strike in front of the White House over the right to invoke Jesus' name.

Is this the formal name for the American Episcopal Church or any of its offshoots? I ask because there has been a recent attempt by the religious left to insinuate itself with Evangelicalism as a tactic to claim the missing 'God' component they need to cobble together a winning base in 2008. Frankly, the last thing I would associate with the Episcopal church is an affiliation with the larger American Evangelical movement.

[wheelright]

"There is no discriminary clause in the First Ammendment."
I'm afraid you're wrong in this case. The UCMJ trumps the constitution where soldiers are concerned. Soldiers are not permitted to appear at demonstrations or other political events in uniform. He know's what the rules are and chose to violate them. Agree with him or not, that's the price he must pay for expressing himself contrary to his orders and the code of conduct he swore to uphold.

[Bigh4u2]

"The military is not a Democracy and sometimes there's things that are asked of a military person that doesn't make sense to others"

Yeah. That would be me.

I never served in the military,as much as I wanted to (wanted to be a pilot), but person reason kept me out, although my three brothers and father did serve.

Unfortunately, I was the 'blacksheep' of the family at the time.

[Bigh4u2]

See my post #11

[Bigh4u2]

person = personal

[GovernmentShrinker]

news conference to protest a Navy policy requiring nondenominational prayers outside of religious services

He's not being punished for "praying" or for "showing his faith". He's being punished for a appearing, in his Navy uniform, in a public protest of a very reasonable and Constitutionally valid Navy regulation. The Navy is not prohibiting him from praying however he sees fit or from participating in whatever sectarian religious services he sees fit, in or out of uniform. It is prohibiting him from trying to ram HIS religious beliefs down the throats of Navy personnel who don't share them, and from publicly protesting, IN UNIFORM and ACTING IN THE ROLE OF A NAVY CHAPLAIN, the Navy policy which protects its personnel from religious fanatics like himself.

There has been a problem in various branches of the military, with certain types of "evangelical" Christians forcing their beliefs on other personnel in settings other than voluntary worship services. The military has a right and an obligation to crack down on this.

[xzins]

Klingenschmitt contends the news conference qualified as a worship service.

I'm a chaplain, and I want to support this guy, but I cannot do it in this instance. (He is right to insist on praying in Jesus' name, but that's a different issue.)

It is well known that when in uniform, we have different standards with the public than when out of uniform. This is especially true at a political event. The presence of Roy Moore and others clearly indicate this to have been a political event.

The chaplain received a clear, direct order not to participate in uniform in that media (political) event....from a general officer. There is no way that the order could be construed as unlawful.

Klingenschmitt's odd argument that it qualified as a worship service is obvious intent to circumvent an order.

I think he's going down. And sadly, he's probably taking his othewise worthy issue about praying in Jesus' name with him.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

Joan Baez' hubby David Harris (muh usbandavid) performed his hate-speech routine in a park in Augusta Ga in summer 1972. Not a single soul from Ft Gordon showed up in uniform for the very same reason. Yours truly and some other short-hairs made his little mission less pleasant than he counted on, LOL.

[verity]

Great analysis, Padre.

[JLS]

It's unfortunate but unless the order was illegal he's guilty and in order to maintain order in the armed forces punishment must be administered.

I think a case could be made the he was leading a religious service. But he apparently wants to be convicted or he would not be bringing in the irrelevant Roy Moore into this.

[evad]

Absolutely correct GS.

I'm surprised FReepers can't grasp that basic concept.

[tobyhill]

I feel for him but he staked his claim and he has to deal with the consequences.