Posted on 09/10/2006 3:58:44 PM PDT by cleelumsledhead
The article fails to mention that this is really Bush's fault.
I guess I fail to see the "problem" here.
For thousands of years, great forests burned once in a while. In fact, some species need fire to regenerate (jack pine comes to mind here in Michigan). In other words, it's a completely natural thing.
However, some natural things are not pretty nor convenient to modern humans. Most bodily functions are not especially pretty (although they ARE pretty when you haven't been able to perform them due to a medical condition). Death is neither pretty nor convenient, but it's completely natural (not a result of a screwup, as the press would have you believe).
I can understand why snowmobile enthusiasts don't like forest fires. They turn very beautiful scenery into ugly collections of burned "matchsticks". In addition, a roadless wilderness would be hated by snowmobile riders 'cause there's no easy place to ride. However, I fail to see how humanity should, or even can, prevent forest fires, and certainly don't see their connection between roads and preventing fires.
Who is blaming Bush? His policies are a quite a bit better than Clinton's on this issue.
Also, snowmobilers do like wide open clear hills to recreate on, I would just rather see them logged then burned to the ground.
"Also, snowmobilers do like wide open clear hills to recreate on, I would just rather see them logged then burned to the ground."
Being a Michigan guy, I'm not totally unfamilier with fires and logging, or snowmobiling for that matter.
1. I've yet to see a logged area that lacked brush piles, ruts and stumps. Maybe you've got enough snow in your part of the world to cover all that, but here most places don't come close.
2. Loggers can in fact log out much of the forest areas. Some areas are wilderness areas, which mean that we've decided to let nature take its course, including fires.
3. The last I checked, managed forests do in fact burn if you've got a prolonged drought.
4. I also wonder if a clear-cut area is any less ugly than a burn area.
Yes, given the choice, it would be great to log out an area that is gonna burn the next day. The problem, of course, is that we don't have a clue what's gonna burn until it's too late to get in there.
From Fox News Report Hannity and Colmes program,
William La Jeunesse said; "Sean, what I want to say, this was brought under Section 7 of the Endangered Species Act. There was and amendment to the forest plan in the Pacific Northwest United States that applied to Washington, Oregon, Idaho. Not just this forest, and what it says and I am quoting right now "If helicopter operations must take place, quote, "within a Riperian habitat conservation area, (that is a stream,) AN EXEMPTION MUST BE GRANTED BY A RESOURCE ADVISOR, (thats a biologist,) with the advoidence of adverse effects to listed species as a primary goal."
What the above means is - That while some dumba$$ envirowhack figures out if any fish, will be threatened by scooping up water to fight the fire with. Of course four fire fighters and ALL the fish in the fire area died while a decision was reached.
It *really* sucks when a Democrat does something that is actually correct, because by default to Republicans, it is then incorrect.
I frequent one of those "roadless areas" in southern Oregon. The Kalmiopsis Wilderness area in the Siskiyous. It is one of the most unique areas in the world, and some species only exist there.
Of all the places we've been in Oregon, it is the most pristine. The rest of Oregon, especially the coast, you can see clear cuts about anywhere you go. I understand there needs to be some logging. But a big part of even moving to areas like this is to experience the wilderness. Fishing, hiking, etc., are all great family experiences, and it is very beneficial to my children.
It would *great* if they'll be able to have those experiences with their children.
There is absolutely *no* good reason to log the Kalmiopsis Wilderness area. None. It is full of unique species such as Sugar Pines and Port Orford Cedars. When you're there, you know you are someplace special.
Of course this area became federally protected during the Clinton years. Unfortunately. Because since he did it, this means it's wrong, and that means they should be able to log it.
Bush changed this last year, and opened up the area affected by the Biscuit fire to logging. It's a pretty easy sell to most that if the area has burned, you mine as well log it. But once you've experienced those areas, and then educated yourself on how this area remains unique, you come to the understanding that the fires are a natural part of those forests. That in order for those species to exist, the fires are a necessary, natural part of life, and that if you remove all of the burned trees, it needs to be replaced with something. And the answer is not to replace it with a bunch of Douglas Firs the exact same size, although that is the favorite of the loggers.
On the east side of the Kalmiopsis, you have Babyfoot Lake. After Bush allowed the logging, the loggers "accidentally" logged the wrong areas, cutting down those Sugar Pines and Port Orford Cedars they weren't supposed to.
2 weeks ago my family visited the west side, which is Vulcan Lake. There are no roads to the lake, but you can camp just outside the wilderness area, and take a 2 mile hike to get to the lake. Next year, we'd planned on visiting the east side, and once we got home, is when I started researching it.
That's how I found out what Bush did. I don't believe he had any evil intent, but if you check out "Babyfoot Lake" in the Kalmiopsis Wilderness area, you can find pictures of the devastation the loggers did.
I'm not blaming their accident specifically on Bush. They logged the wrong area, but even still, they shouldn't have been logging the burned areas, as those unique species that used to exist there, will have much less of a chance at survival now. Bush gave them that chance, but again, he prolly has more important things to do, like focus on terrorism.
I'm just uncertain of how we as a generation will be able to explain and justify this to our future generations. Once a species is gone, it's gone. It's not like God just snaps his fingers and re-creates them. He gives them to us once, and if we destroy them, they're gone, never to return.
Again, I understand the importance of logging, but there are plenty of Douglas Firs out there to log, and there is no reason to go into federally protected areas and log, just because Clinton made them protected. You could look at it as him accidentally doing something right. I didn't vote for him either, but I'm talking to you 2 weeks after the most exciting, pristine, adventures I've taken my family on yet. I simply want future generations to be able to experience that too, but maybe for many, you have to see it for yourselves to feel like that.
If you look up anything about the Kalmiopsis, be sure to check out the insect eating plant called the Darlingtonia. Or the Kalmiopsis flower. Pretty amazing species. Next year I plan on still taking my family to Babyfoot Lake on the east side, although it will be a much different experience now that it has been logged.
Bookmark.
I was kidding. Bush is blamed for everything.
I was kidding.
I know Bush didn't truly even know what the effects would be of allowing them to log those areas. The experts tell him what the deal is, and what choice does he have but to listen to the experts.
Although I am 100% confident that if he had taken his kids there too, he may have thought twice about it.
Maybe I could write to him, and let him know I'm a conservative, but I still like taking my family to these areas, and to please not log them.
Bump to that!
(No more Olmert! No more Kadima! No more Oslo! )
I just came through that area from the coast, and you are so full of crap I can't believe it.... sure there are some clear cuts, but in a forested area that stretches 80 miles from the coast to I-5, you've got millions of acres of trees that haven't been cut and the underbrush is a fire trap. My wife and our friends could not believe that depth of the slash underneath the canopy and what will happen when we have another major fire. Log the blasted trees!!!!!!
"Maybe I could write to him, and let him know I'm a conservative, but I still like taking my family to these areas, and to please not log them".
Burn baby burn. Thin them by logging, or let em burn to the ground. I prefer logging in the roadless areas. And the wilderness areas and RWAs only allow forest fires as the sole means of forest management.
Ride down the Nehalem River road, or US26 towards the coast. Clear cuts everywhere. Alot of that is private property. Let them log it to their heart's content. There are plenty more Douglas Firs they can cut down.
Check out the Trask River road too. And the Nestucca River road. More clear cuts. Lots of them. Let them log that to their heart's content.
But why go in to one of the most unique areas in the world, and destroy species that future generations won't be able to experience ?
I'll guess I'll ask it this way. Is there *any* place in then entire world that should be off limits to logging ? If there is a single place in this entire world to *not* log, the Kalmiopsis Wilderness area is just that place.
You could always go there. Visit Vulcan lake first, then check out Babyfoot Lake. The latter is the area they logged.
You are sick.....there are millions of acres of trees, so what if we harvest what is there? Managed forests are so friendly to wildlife that more should be cut...clear cuts are deer habitate disneyworlds. Get off you butt and get into the forests... you are a perfect example of why we have the three S's.
The tree huggers are firmly in control of the asylum. A big tree hunter just discovered a "Worlds Tallest Tree" in Redwood National Park and the park service will not disclose the location to common peasants because we might love it to death. This is the fifth "Worlds Tallest Tree" this guy has found in the Redwoods in 15 years and each one was in a "secret location".
Can't have the peons enjoy what their taxes paid for that were used to confiscate the land from lumber companies putting hundreds out of work.
"I'll guess I'll ask it this way. Is there *any* place in then entire world that should be off limits to logging ? If there is a single place in this entire world to *not* log, the Kalmiopsis Wilderness area is just that place".
It is obvious that you do not understand forest management and Forest Service regulations. There is NO logging allowed in ANY wilderness area, including the Kalmiopsis Wilderness, so if you are seeing bald hills in this wilderness, then it is from fire. Unless of course this wilderness was illegally designated as wilderness even though there were previous clearcut areas.
When did a democrat do anything that was remotely correct since 1846?
This nonsense about choking off natural habitat from loggers is just that...nonsense.
I just got back from a marathon trip up to Eureka and from there to Yreka via the Klamath river gorge. There are fires burning in the Trinity Mts. just north of the Marble Mt. Wilderness area and have been since July!
But let a logger propose a road and a plan to harvest some trees and the "Spotted owl" or "something or other flying squirrel"....
But..let her burn!
Absolute Nonsense! Proper forest management would provide trees for loggers, habitat for deer and bear, spawning areas for salmon and steelhead trout.
Underscore PROPER. We do not have it. But we could have it.
And then the forest would be available not just for the rich or indolent but for the family man or widow(er). It would be there for children as well and not just school teachers on summer leave.
So, RigidPrinciples, I have my principles and I guess we clash. What I see is more reckless mismanagement.
I bet one of the reasons for the forest fire in Humbolt is to clear the Mt sides for marijuana growing. And no one but the indians can get in there!
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