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Biologist says evolution, religion can coexist
Lawrence Journal World ^ | 9/8/06 | Kenneth Miller

Posted on 09/09/2006 8:39:07 PM PDT by curiosity

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To: Jessarah

God cursed us with the experience of pain and a finite life. Given what He could have cursed us with, I can accept that.

I am still mad at Him about mosquitoes, however...

OTOH, I tell all of my patients that pain is God's way of telling us that we are still alive.

Here's one for all of you Creationists: I am absolutely positive that God created us as part of the "Cosmic Giggle" and if we don't believe in that, we can never really understand Him.


61 posted on 09/09/2006 9:36:06 PM PDT by 43north (7 of 11 living things are insects. This explains liberals and islamofascists.)
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To: Torie
My neighbor and I are NOT biologically related, yes we do have DNA but tests would show that we did not come from the same ancestors. Yet we are both children of the Heavenly Father who created our individual souls.
62 posted on 09/09/2006 9:38:48 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Coyoteman

In any event, I am not sure what your point is. Is it that the magic mutation occcured X years ago rather than Y years ago, or something else? Obviously, if there was a magic mutation, it did not occur six thousand years ago, or whatever thereabouts the hard core fundamentalists posit.


63 posted on 09/09/2006 9:39:03 PM PDT by Torie
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To: microgood

But God included randomness as part of the process. Without randomness, we could not have "evolved" into His image.

Don't mess with God! He knows what He's doing so why worry about it at all?


64 posted on 09/09/2006 9:40:12 PM PDT by 43north (7 of 11 living things are insects. This explains liberals and islamofascists.)
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To: canuck_conservative
You guys are getting hung up on words. What's a guided process?

Unguided is what you say when evo's get mad at your for calling the mechanism random mutation and natural selection. In other words, is evolution compatible with the notion that God made man in His own image? Or, if the process was started all over again would it yield the exact same result?

If so, it is not unguided. Many evolutionists believe the fact that we look the way we do is a result of a random unguided process, although they stress random less these days and emphasize natural selection as the mechanism.
65 posted on 09/09/2006 9:41:13 PM PDT by microgood
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To: Just mythoughts

Your neighbors descended from some other tree of life, or maybe the same tree, but from Neandrathals, while you descended from Cro-magnon man, or what?


66 posted on 09/09/2006 9:41:48 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Torie

My neighbors are Western caucasian vegetarian Buddhists who teach at the local university. I'm not even sure if they are from this planet!

This is sure a fun thread!


67 posted on 09/09/2006 9:44:59 PM PDT by 43north (7 of 11 living things are insects. This explains liberals and islamofascists.)
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To: 43north
But God included randomness as part of the process. Without randomness, we could not have "evolved" into His image.

Interesting notion. I will have to think about that one for a while.
68 posted on 09/09/2006 9:46:09 PM PDT by microgood
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To: Coyoteman

Do the planits orbit the sun or must Seven Spanish Angels push them through their respective epicycles? Does each falling particle need an angel to push it? Gravitational theory is non-theistic as normally taught.


69 posted on 09/09/2006 9:48:20 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: 43north
I am very comfortable in my beliefs and give glory to God for the things He has created.

And I am comfortable with what He created also. That includes humans and all living things. If you think He created evolution to bring man into existence, you do not believe the Bible.

70 posted on 09/09/2006 9:49:30 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Never forget Matt Maupin)
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To: curiosity
The problem you have is reconciling man's intellect. If natural causes alone are enough to explain it, then the question becomes, why does science, let alone God, need two different mechanisms to achieve the same goal.

Wishful thinking aside....Philosophically, theologically, and scientifically, they are not compatible. Like it or not.

71 posted on 09/09/2006 9:51:17 PM PDT by csense
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To: microgood

To understand God's creation and our part in it we must try to comprehend the fourth dimension of time. God is infinite and eternal. We are finite and temporal. He knew exactly what was going to happen when He created all of this because His perception is circular. Ours is linear. This is why we will never be able to fully comprehend God - we don't have the mental capacity. What we do have is Faith. Thank you God for that.


72 posted on 09/09/2006 9:53:29 PM PDT by 43north (7 of 11 living things are insects. This explains liberals and islamofascists.)
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To: 43north
But God included randomness as part of the process.

Please direct me to the associated verse in the Bible that states this.

73 posted on 09/09/2006 9:55:41 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Never forget Matt Maupin)
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To: taxesareforever

I believe that the Bible is the Word of God expressed by Man. I do not believe that Man has the capacity to express God's word with 100% accuracy. Nor do I believe that Science is 100% accurate.

I do believe that Man's highest calling in life is to explore and study what God had created for us with an open mind.


74 posted on 09/09/2006 9:59:31 PM PDT by 43north (7 of 11 living things are insects. This explains liberals and islamofascists.)
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To: Torie

Who is the "tree of life"?

The flesh body is descent from one generation to the next and there is no way that all flesh alive on this planet today came from just two people. The evolutionist will tell you that Eve had to have had several partners to bare children of the ethnicity we see today. However, the tree of life represents life to the soul that does not die with the death of flesh.

Adam and Eve and their generations are recorded as they were the linage to Christ the one destined to ... Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise too part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15. And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily He took not on Him the nature of angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham.

Christ demonstrated for us at His flesh body dying that He went to the 'prisoners' all those that came before Him the offering of salvation while it appeared to those in the flesh he was still in the tomb.


75 posted on 09/09/2006 10:03:06 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: taxesareforever

People who take everything that they read in the Bible as absolute truth are really missing out on a lot.

The Bible was written by HUMANS as directed by God. HUMANS have a tendency to screw things up ALL of the time.

Do you REALLY want to believe EVERYTHING in the Bible EXACTLY as it is written??? Open your mind - it does not hurt one bit and you may discover Glories of God that you never imagined!


76 posted on 09/09/2006 10:05:07 PM PDT by 43north (7 of 11 living things are insects. This explains liberals and islamofascists.)
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To: 43north
I believe that the Bible is the Word of God expressed by Man.

And this is where we disagree. I believe that the Bible is the Word of God, period. If one doesn't, then one can draw up their own scenario as to how things happen, which is what you are doing.

77 posted on 09/09/2006 10:06:33 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Never forget Matt Maupin)
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To: 43north
But God included randomness as part of the process. Without randomness, we could not have "evolved" into His image.

Then by this logic, what is there to prevent us from evolving "out of," or away from, his image.

If your answer is, that he guides evolution, then you have just defeated your premise, since randomness becomes incoherent.

78 posted on 09/09/2006 10:07:17 PM PDT by csense
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To: csense

How do we even know what God's image is?

I have Faith that God will keep things under control and that if we evolve further, it will be in a positive direction towards Him, not away.


79 posted on 09/09/2006 10:09:48 PM PDT by 43north (7 of 11 living things are insects. This explains liberals and islamofascists.)
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To: taxesareforever

You and I must agree to disagree. I am not arrogant enough to think that humans could possibly represent the Word of God w/o messing up a few things and leaving a lot of things out.


80 posted on 09/09/2006 10:11:55 PM PDT by 43north (7 of 11 living things are insects. This explains liberals and islamofascists.)
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