America's ideologue in chief

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | September 8, 2006 | Pat Buchanan

[A. Pole]

Substitute religion bump

[dirtboy]

In May 1901, a 26-year-old Tory member of Parliament rose to issue a prophetic warning: "Democracy is more vindictive than cabinets. The wars of peoples will be more terrible than the wars of kings." Considering the war that came in 1914 and the vindictive peace it produced, giving us Lenin, Stalin, Mussolini and Hitler, was not Churchill more right than Bush?

Uh, Pat, WWI was triggered by kings against democracies, you idiot. And WWII was triggered by totalitarian states against democracies, you idiot.

Pat B. needs to join Pat Robertson in dotage somewhere.

[A. Pole]

WWI was triggered by kings against democracies

Germany and Austro-Hungary had strong and well functioning parliaments, United Kingdom was a monarchy with strong a strong Parliament. BTW, if Germans were allowed to keep the king after WWI, the political vacuum of Weimar Republic would not be there.

[A. Pole]

The main reason why fewer democracies got into the wars is that democracies until recently were quite rare.

If you want more numerous samples look at the democratic city states of ancient Greece, Italy and Germany. They were not less warlike than monarchies.

[dirtboy]

Germany and Austro-Hungary had strong and well functioning parliaments,

The primary power still rested with the monarchies, and it was they who triggered the pan-European war.

BTW, if Germans were allowed to keep the king after WWI, the political vacuum of Weimar Republic would not be there.

Wrong again. The vacuum came from not finishing the job in the first place in WWI, as opposed to WWII, where German militarism was wiped out.

[dirtboy]

The main reason why fewer democracies got into the wars is that democracies until recently were quite rare.

Rationalize it all you want, but Pat was an idiot here.

[EDINVA]

it's been sad to watch Buchanan's decline over the past decade or so ... he's so hate-filled and bitter that even when he is right, he's hard to watch, listen to, or read. just pathetic.

I don't think he's ever gotten over losing the Iowa Straw Poll that he'd invested so much time, money and energy into winning. So, he fixed the GOP but good ... ran 3rd party with an avowed Marxist. Putz. He's more a sore loser than Gore.

[shrinkermd]

I agree. Buchanan pontificates like Maureen Dowd. They both hate the President and don't know why. The reason is simple. The President is a genuine man with the manly qualities of self-discipline and forbearance that makes for great leaders.

Basically, Buchanan is raising the neocon flag once again. Well, let us remember that Plato did say a leader has knowledge where others only have beliefs but he also ascribed the necessary accoutrement's of leadership--a good memory, quickness of learning, broadness of vision, elegance and a love of affiliation, truth and morality. All qualities both Died and Buchanan lack but President Bush has.

In respect to the Iraq War, someone has to do some thinking. We have conquered and are in the process of replacing a government of a country of 27 million. We did this with no more than 140 thousand troops at a time and with only 2600 or so (up to this time) KIAs. This is an outstanding accomplishment distorted by the MSM and the paleoconservatives into a defeat!

Buchanan, a man I once sent thousands, has become a joke and he now thinks like the liberal lady from the gray old lady.

[dirtboy]

Just look at this one sentence even further:

Considering the war that came in 1914 and the vindictive peace it produced, giving us Lenin, Stalin

Amazing in its staggering, probably deliberate ignorance of most basic history. Lenin came to power during WWI. And the harsh peace that ended Russia's involvement in the war was made by Germany, not the West.

The clear problem with how WWI ended was not a harsh peace, but that the west was unable to finish the job like they did the second go-round. If you look at the horrors inflicted upon Germany and Japan in WWII (necessary horrors), they were FAR more drastic than Versailles. The countries were basicaly obliterated. Yet now Germany and Japan are peaceful democracies (there's that nasty D-word again) and are demilitarized.

So that simple bit of history destroys the anti-democracy positions of Pat and many others. Japan had utterly NO democratic history, and Germany very little. Their current democracies were imposed by completion of total war. If history is any lesson, Iraq is taking a long time to complete not because we were too aggressive, but because we were not nearly aggressive enough against the Baathist political core of the country and the nitwit militia movements such as Sadr's. They saw our restraint as weakness.

[pissant]

It's Western Civilization against Islamic extremists Pat. Pretty simple.

[gusopol3]

what Bush passed over in his speech is that it is the autocratic regimes in Cairo, Riyadh and Amman that hold back the pent-up animosity toward America and Israel, and free elections that have advanced Hamas, Hezbollah, the Moslem Brotherhood and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to power.

the autocratic regimes aren't holding back pent up anger against Israel and America, they are holding back pent up anger against themselves, using Wahabists, etc., as a safety valve to direct anger outward to inconsequential "issues" like the existence of Israel or the Great Satan.

[dirtboy]

and free elections that have advanced Hamas, Hezbollah, the Moslem Brotherhood and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to power.

First of all, IMO the election of Hamas was a good thing. It meant the Palestinians could no longer play the Fatah good cop/Hamas bad cop routine. Now it is crystal clear the Palestinian people do not seek to co-exist with Israel, but destroy it. And Israel has had nearly free reign to deal with Hamas as a result.

Hezbollah is powerful not because it won 20 percent of the vote, but because of Syria's continued political influence over Lebanon. Take away Syria, and Hez would be a non-entity.

And Ahmadinejad was not elected in a fair and free election. If you believe he was, well, we really ain't on the same page of reality, and you must dwell in Pat's.

[ClaireSolt]

If you want to draw lessons, I suggest looking at the provisional governments of Russia and Germany that were toppled easily by revolutionaries. They show why Iraq needs us until they are on their feet. We used to have good sense of how debilitating life under tyranny is, especially when SU fell. Now we have conveniently forgotten in a haze of partisan spin.

[gusopol3]

hat Bush passed over in his speech is that it is the autocratic regimes in Cairo, Riyadh and Amman that hold back the pent-up animosity toward America and Israel, and free elections that have advanced Hamas, Hezbollah, the Moslem Brotherhood and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to power.

But the Moslem Brotherhood is in autocratic Egypt. If Pat can't hold the same thought from the beginning to the end of the same sentence, then how cogent do you expect his argument to be?

[dirtboy]

An excellent point. Fledgling democracies need to be nurtured and protected, just like any young animal. You just don't toss the baby bird out of the nest after hatching and expect it to fly.

[dirtboy]

Sorry about that snark that was directed at you, I thought the non-italicized stuff was your comments.

[gusopol3]

no offense intended or taken

[gusopol3]

was not Churchill more right than Bush?

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." Winston Churchill

Isn't this Churchill's most famous democracy quote, in spite of knowing more than Buchanan and A. Pole together about WW I, Weimar, ancient Greece, etc., etc.?

[PGalt]

Entire article is built on a false premise of "democratic fundamentalism".