9/11: Five years later Typecasting Muslims as a Race

The San Francisco Chronicle ^ | September 3, 2006 | Matthai Chakko Kuruvila, Chronicle Religion Writer

[zimdog]

Provoked by CENTURIES of EFFECTIVE muslim SOP aggression.

The standard anti-Semite's appeal to the anti-Muslim "conservative": "I attacked the Joooos because the Mooooslims made me do it."

Individual rights, individual responsibilities.

[zimdog]

Ridiculous question.

Ridiculous dodge. Answer the question.

[zimdog]

If one is forced, it is not a choice.

It may not be a pleasant choice, but it is a choice.

[TalBlack]

"The standard anti-Semite's appeal to the anti-Muslim "conservative": "I attacked the Joooos because the Mooooslims made me do it." "

You're either very confused or very stupid or delusional. Probably a little of all three.

Your line above doesn't relate to ANYTHING I wrote.

BTW: How many people did Jesus Christ rape and or kill?

[LauraleeBraswell]

" I assume you're referring to the internment of Americans of Japanese descent.

I would like to know how, if the attack on Pearl Harbor "wasn't our fault" and "was the fault of the japanese", why don't you disagree with interring tens of thousands of us who weren't at fault?"



During World War II, the religion of Japan was Japanese Shintoism. This belief system particular to the Japanese, was the irrefutable divinity of the Japanese Emperor. He was a living God, their living god.
And if you knew about Japanese culture, you would know that LOYALTY is a value very much present in their society.
Remember, we made the emperor renounce his position?

Now, What do you think the religion of pre World War II Japanese immigrants living in America was? And if their religion was Japanese Shintoism, then who do you think their loyalty was to? This new foreign country, or the Emperor of Japan.



I agree with annelizly.

[zimdog]

Your line above doesn't relate to ANYTHING I wrote.

You wrote that the Crusades -- Christian "holy wars" that resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, Jews among them -- were "provoked" by "muslim SOP aggression".

Will you say that Muslims were not responsible for the anti-Semitic murders committed by Crusaders? Because your post #199 implies otherwise. That's what I was responding to.

[zimdog]

During World War II, the religion of Japan was Japanese Shintoism. This belief system particular to the Japanese, was the irrefutable divinity of the Japanese Emperor. He was a living God, their living god. And if you knew about Japanese culture, you would know that LOYALTY is a value very much present in their society. Remember, we made the emperor renounce his position?

Are you suggesting that religion was central to Japan's Pacific War? You're thinking ahistorically, trying to read the present War on Terror into a much different conflict.

If you knew about Japanese history, you would know that the Emperor authority was de jure but the de facto control was in the hands of a cabal of militaristic nationalists. If Hirohito was responsible for the war that terrorized East Asia in the 1930s and 1940s, why would we as the occupying power let him continue as Emperor?

Now, What do you think the religion of pre World War II Japanese immigrants living in America was? And if their religion was Japanese Shintoism, then who do you think their loyalty was to? This new foreign country, or the Emperor of Japan.

Your obvious xenophobia is repugnant. Furthemore, Internment was not limited to disloyal immigrants, but to "Americans of Japanese descent" (as my post made clear) regardless of their political loyalties. That's racist and that's wrong.

[Fury]

"Bin Ladin was our anticommunist ally 2 decades years ago"

Hello - I was reading the thread and came across this remark. I wanted to inquire as to a reference you might have for this assertion.

I read the above sentence to mean that Bin Laden and the US were in some way working in a coordinated manner against the Soviet Union. In the readings I have done, I have not seen a compelling case for such a cooperative venture.

[LauraleeBraswell]

"If Hirohito was responsible for the war that terrorized East Asia in the 1930s and 1940s, why would we as the occupying power let him continue as Emperor?"


ummm Actually, we didn't let him continue. We made him renounce his divine position. He became a figurehead.

"Are you suggesting that religion was central to Japan's Pacific War?"

No actually. I never once asserted that. I'll just disregard your further comments.


" de facto control was in the hands of a cabal of militaristic nationalists"

Whoever was behind the emperor pulling the strings is irrelevent. The fact is that the state and the divine religiouse figureheard were one in the same for the Japanese people. And when immigrants left Japan (the state) for the US, they still retained their religion which as I established before, was inseperable from the state.

Read what I wrote again. Your lack of reading comprehension is repugnant. As for your personal attacks, You don't know me. You don't know anything about my relationships with all types of people.

Claiming that I have an aversion to foreigners certainly suits you. It's a strawman and it enables you to justify your small mindedness and write me off as a prejuduced party. Why don't you argue the issue at hand instead of calling people untrue names and deviating from the point?

[zimdog]

ummm Actually, we didn't let him continue. We made him renounce his divine position. He became a figurehead.

Ummm, actually, he continued as Emperor. He never was a god in the first place, so while renoucing his alleged divinity redefined the relationship between the Emperor and his subjects, it changed very little in the real world.

Whoever was behind the emperor pulling the strings is irrelevent.

MacArthur disagreed. Tojo et al were tried for war crimes, convicted, and executed.

The fact is that the state and the divine religiouse figureheard were one in the same for the Japanese people. And when immigrants left Japan (the state) for the US, they still retained their religion which as I established before, was inseperable from the state.

So the fact that they left Japan and became US citizens disproves either of your two assumtions (these are not "established", BTW): 1) that they retained a religious devotion to the Emperor, or 2) that religion and the state were inextricably linked.

Your lack of reading comprehension is repugnant.

Then why is it that between us, I am the only one who seems capable of making a distinction between "Japanese immigrants" and "people of Japanese descent"?

As for your personal attacks, You don't know me.

Says Ms. "Your lack of reading comprehension is repugnant".

Claiming that I have an aversion to foreigners certainly suits you.

It seems quite clear from your statement that people of Japanese descent are necessarily loyal to the Emperor of Japan, regardless of their actual beliefs. You questioned the loyalty of immigrants simply because they were immigrants and raised the specter of the "inscrutable Asian" stereotype.

It's a strawman and it enables you to justify your small mindedness and write me off as a prejuduced party.

If you are willing to clarify or repudiate your statements, I will happily listen.

[zimdog]

The way I understand it is that the alliance was one of convenience, but an alliance nonetheless. Money was channelled indirectly to bin Ladin & his comrades and the US supported developments that were favorable to bin Ladin's fight against the Soviets.

So an alliance, yes, but a clandestine one. Did he shake hands with Reagan at the White House? No. Did he receive material and political support? I believe so, but I would be interested to look at the readings you've mentioned.

[TalBlack]

"You wrote that the Crusades -- Christian "holy wars" that resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, Jews among them -- were "provoked" by "muslim SOP aggression.

The crusades were provoked by SOP muslim agression. No SOP muslim aggression (which, after a few centuries was beginning to absorb much of the Christian world)no crusades. Attempting to attach the overzealousness practiced by some perhaps pious and some not so pious crusaders to the CAUSE of the Crusades themselves is is the sort of applied ignorance that will leave you destined to repeat the history that you have failed to learn from.

Islam reflects its earthly origins. It cannot exalt, it cannot rise. It's prophet has blood and crime on his hands. How can his followers be BETTER than he? Answer: They can't. And their similarity to their prophet provoked a Pope to get off of his ass and push back. There are plenty of Crusaders in hell but Jesus Christ's, as a life, is exalting.

[zimdog]

So you're saying that Crusaders, filled with their zeal to defend the faith, killed thousands of civilian Jews, Orthodox Christians, and Muslims. Thanks for making that clear. If that's not what you intended to say, let me caution you from ignoring the actions of the Crusaders simply because they were different than the stated reasons for the Crusades.

[airborne]

Not a race.

A cult.

[TalBlack]

"So you're saying that Crusaders, filled with their zeal to defend the faith, killed thousands of civilian Jews, Orthodox Christians"

No. I used the term OVER zealous. Generally this term connotes a human failing rather than an excess of a good thing. But then, you knew that.

The dead outside of Muslim ranks is infinitesimally tiny given the full scope of the Crusades. But, then, you knew that as well.

Try to focus upon the center: How many did Mohammad rape and kill vs how many did Jesus rape and kill? As I said: There are crusaders in hell.

[zimdog]

The dead outside of Muslim ranks is infinitesimally tiny given the full scope of the Crusades. But, then, you knew that as well.

In other words, "You have to break a few Jews to make an omlette", right?

Disgusting.