Most Americans Agree with Evolution [new poll]

Angus Reid Consultants ^ | 01 September 2006 | Staff

[betty boop]

"While Newton may have been agnostic on the Trinity he was not agnostic as to the Word. He was a fervent believer in the God of Abraham."

* * * * * * *

jwalsh07, I meant to ping you to this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1693540/posts?page=440#440

I have no doubt that Newton fervently believed in the God of Abraham, "defining" Him as "the Lord of Life with His creatures." No matter how one slices it, that is a Judeo-Christian, not a (say) Buddhist or pantheist or deist notion....

Thank you so much for your kind reply.

[betty boop]

Since we know ... that faith in Christ magnifies the illimitable Grace of God toward humankind, the tipping point will involve such a despising of the Gospel of Grace in Christ as to warrant terminating this phase of the process God has instituted to evolve humankind in a magnification of His Son on now our spiritual level.

Wonderful post, MHGinTN! (I was just thinking how very far from the main topic this sidebar has gotten. I hope PH doesn't mind too much.)

Clearly the "despising" of God and His Grace seems to be achieving a critical mass in "fashionable" (e.g., "politically correct") modern society. Pretty soon, maybe we'll be able to ask Dr. Phil's question of the despisers: "So, how's that working out for you?"

LOLOL! Thank you ever so much for writing, MHGinTN!

[MHGinTN]

I only came across that passage from Newton's works when hayek Rocks posted the links ... been reading furiously ever since!

I was once given the analopgy of water for the trinity; God in three persons just as water may take any of three states: water vapor, liquid, or ice. The theme of threes appears to be a deeply rooted one with this universe and from that I conclude the analogy is apropos. That's one reason why I use the notion of dimensions having three variable expressions (as in space expresses linear, planar, volumetric; time expresses past, present, future; life force expresses will, emotion, and mind; haven't the depth of seeing to discern the three expressions of spirit dimension, though)

[metmom]

I seen adnmonishment (and been admonished) by evolutionists.

I've seen it too, once that I recall, but please see post 427.

[PatrickHenry]

I hope PH doesn't mind too much.

No problem.

[betty boop]

haven't the depth of seeing to discern the three expressions of spirit dimension,

S'okay, MHGinTN! Just assume an analogical relationship exists between the examples you cite and the nature of the divine trinity.... Analogy is the best you can hope for anyway, since we do not "see" things (i.e., via sense perception) that are not "in" linear time.... The soul, however, can do a lot of seeing for you, by the light of the holy spirit, if you let it. But that sort of seeing is not "in" linear time, but already "in" timelessness, or eternity.... Or so I gather.

It has been said that man lives at the "intersection of time and timelessness." Truly I believe that: the very figure (or symbol) of the Cross on which Jesus Christ was crucified strongly suggests that notion to my mind.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!

[YHAOS]

"I was once given the analopgy of water for the trinity; God in three persons just as water may take any of three states: water vapor, liquid, or ice."

Funny you should mention that analogy, MHGinTN, I was given the same explanation by a Presbyterian pastor when I was a youngster. Maybe it's my lack of sophistication, but I fail to grasp the great difficulty of the concept of the three-in-one trinity. Keeping in mind boop's suggestion to KISS, and applying modern terminology to the concept, just look upon the trinity as a divine instance of multi-tasking.

[MHGinTN]

Multi-tasking ... reading the first chapter of John's Gospel, you REALLY get the sense of God multi-tasking don'tchaknow. I've always thought that seventh day God rested makes all the necessary room for evolution to run its course. It amazes me that so much bickering happens over the subject. When I ways teaching, the phrase 'There's a theory that' covered a whole lot of describing without preaching, so I still don't see why ID can't be explained as a theory along with good science in evolutionary theory, might even make a good class of comparing and contrasting without favoring one or the other but making the science of evolution clear to the students. I'm sure there are several lurking about this thread that will explain to me why this is not advisable.

[betty boop]

I'm sure there are several lurking about this thread that will explain to me why this is not advisable.

If that is so, then I wouldn't be one of them. :^)

YHAOS' point about "God resting" on the seventh day is perhaps what is needed in order for evolution to take place in the first place, not to mention to leave a role for his creature, man, made in his image, who God endued with reason and free will....

IMHO, free will is not an illusion. But for human will to be truly free, God must "step aside" in some fashion. Otherwise, we are left with a strict determinism that leaves no place for free will nor, for that matter, for human creativity....

May God bless you both, MHGinTN and YHAOS, for your marvelous insights.

[Jorge]

Damn, we've been in the "end times" ever since we gained the knowledge of good and evil. When are the "end times" finally going to END?

Amazing. The Bible predicts this is the exact attitude unbelievers would have in the end times.

That they would mock what God and His prophets say about the end times with statements like " everything has remained the same since our fathers...where is the promise of His coming"

And then it says that day will come as a theif in the night, and these people would be totally unprepared.

You can gamble your eternal destiny on such doubts, but the fact is if you're wrong, and Bible is telling the truth, you are in for the shock of your life.

[betty boop]

No problem.

Dear Patrick, your seemingly unfailing graciousness and courtesy is deeply appreciated, as ever.

[Doctor Stochastic]

"Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
TEACH a man to fish, and he spends each weekend lying around on a boat drinking beer."

[spinestein]

[You can gamble your eternal destiny on such doubts, but the fact is if you're wrong, and Bible is telling the truth, you are in for the shock of your life.]




It's a choice I made during my young adulthood and I continue to make that same choice in my middle age. Many people have pitied me for it and warned me of the peril to my soul. I have no need for pity or warnings, but it seems to make others feel better to do their part to at least try to get me to repent my lack of faith. It's nice to know I at least serve the purpose of helping others feel good about themselves.

Incidentally, I wonder how many followers of The Bible or The Torah or The Koran or The Book of Mormon ever ponder if they may have gambled their souls on the wrong holy book.

[YHAOS]

"It amazes me that so much bickering happens over the subject."

Well, it does me too, but then again, it doesn't. I don't know of anywhere that a serious attempt has been made to actually teach ID. But, it takes much less that that to stir the fires of controversy. There are many jealous gods out there. Only one is worthy.

[YHAOS]

For the record, let me note that God resting on the seventh day was MHGinTN's point. I don't think either one of us is all that knoted up over credit, and I do concur with his point, nonetheless . . . for the record. { 8^)

"free will is not an illusion"

Unless we were all invaded by the 'body snatchers,' without a will to do it, there is no choosing the Lord, there is no sin, there is nothing more meaningful than being . . . body snatched.

[YHAOS]

"Incidentally, I wonder how many followers of The Bible or The Torah or The Koran or The Book of Mormon ever ponder if they may have gambled their souls on the wrong holy book."

Let's make a deal. I don't speculate about the nature of the Hell to which you will be consigned; you don't worry about my awful fate because I chose the wrong holy book; and we leave the other to deal with his own personal flame-outs, each the best way we can, and knowing we both face the same peril. { 8^)

[Mr. Silverback]

As Geoff Moore wrote:

I believe in evolution
The changing of the heart
Renewing of the mind
It's the only real solution
God's always workin'
Changin' lives

[dread78645]

PlatoDidit placemark

[.30Carbine]

IMHO, free will is not an illusion. But for human will to be truly free, God must "step aside" in some fashion. Otherwise, we are left with a strict determinism that leaves no place for free will nor, for that matter, for human creativity....

I always delight in reading your comments, dear betty boop, and thank you for drawing my attention to such subjects and discussions.

I believe free will is clearly demonstrated everywhere we look. I agree that free will exists underneath the everlasting arms, the overarching and supreme purposes of the One Who Created those who have it. He has a Way of working all things together for good (Rom. 8:28).

[.30Carbine]

PS - how refreshing to be able to say such things outside of the smokey back room (: