Posted on 08/31/2006 3:55:50 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
Your suggestion to Steel and Fire and Stone is a good one.
I'm really conflicted ... have thought about voting for neither, just leaving no vote for guv.
Can't vote Dem ... can't vote GOP for Arnold.
I've never in my life considered voting 3rd party and regular fight absolutist conservatives who punish Republicans for any small deviation from the faith. But Arnold has gone so far afield, esp. on this global warming thing which is a real hot button for me, that I just have to join the absolutists on this one. (Notice my tag to see how empassioned I am around always voting GOP and supporting our candidates. Tells you something's wrong when not even I can hold my nose and vote for Arnold.)
I believe you are making a mistake, further, that mistake is based upon fifth column disruption. I hope you reconsider. Perhaps we can join together in the next primary and support a real conservative. There'll be fifth columnists' then, too, trying to divide us, you may mark my words. I freely admit, I'll be holding my nose and voting for Arnie!
Vote! Don't waste your franchise!
If Heckle and Jeckel are not your cup of tea, and they aren't mine, drag out your Republican primary ballot pamphlet, select the most conservative gubernatorial candidate and write in his name for governor.
And my alternative is....?
Angelides? (Stalin's cousin twin sister)
The GOP RINO's have been telling me for 35 years that "you have no choice... the Dems are worse...". Except for that bright and shinning moment when the GOP put up the "Contract with America", and then actually followed through on a few items, they've NEVER meant what they said when they mouthed conservative rhetoric. It was all just "red meat for the rank and file". Ever wonder why a dozen years after the GOP "revolution", most of the House and Senate committee leadership posts are still held by RINO's. And, when the old "bears" like Dole and Michel, who wouldn't know victory if it bit them in the butt, left the scene, other RINO's took their place. Ever wonder why 3/4 of the current USSC justices were nominated by GOP Presidents, yet the court is still at least 60% hard-left liberal?? The GOP has never meant what it's said about the GOP policy issues. They'll say anything to get the conservative base vote, get elected, and then they all become "big government" Tom Delay Republicans.
The government we now have, both in California and the USA, is the government the GOP is comfortable with. The GOP "conservatives" are comfortable putting RINO's into those positions of leadership. They're comfortable with liberal Supreme Court Justices, and they're comfortable with an onerous tax policy, and a tax (local, state, federal, etc.) burden that eats up of over half of what we earn. They're comfortable with the left-wing union owned public schools of non-education. They're even comfortable with making a "little bit of war" in Afghanistan and Iraq, of talking about "your with us or against us", and that "we'll pursue the state sponsors of terror", as long as it doesn't actually mean getting into a "big war" that might impact the next two year election cycle. They're comfortable enough with the hypocritical Democrats calling their own elected President a war criminal, and our fighting men "baby killers" (i.e. all over again..), not to denounce them, shutdown government, put the Democrats on the spot by uniting the public around a referendum on National Security, and by redefining what IS and IS NOT treason by Congressmen passing state secrets.... No, the GOP is comfortable with the status quo, with nuclear armed N. Korea and Iran, as LONG as they keep their seats during the next election. Just like the treasonous Democrats, the GOP is more concerned with maintaining their perks of power than about national security or public policy. They say all sorts of nice sounding, conservative things, but they mean none of it.
My personal writ against the GOP is long, but I'm not unrealistic. I realize how tough it's been to run upstream against the left. However, as I said, it's personal now. I've been screwed by big government in more ways than I can begin to tell you, but now my kids are getting screwed. And, Schwarzenegger is PERSONALLY involved with the law just passed (he did more than just sign it into law) and the current management of the UC system (he controls the Chancellors - they're his boys, ..or um girls.. or um... tranny's.. whatever).
So, I'm going to get personally involved in ending Schwarzenegger's political career, and that of every GOP RINO I can get my hands on (figuratively speaking). If I can't vote against them, I'm pumping my money into alternate candidates for the primary. If we lose in the primary, I'm doing what RINO's have done for 35 years in California, "on principle" of course, and supporting whoever can beat the RINO, even if it's a Democrat.
It's simple: if I stay home, that's 1 lost vote for Arnie. If I vote for the Dem, that's 1 lost vote, plus a vote for the guy who can beat him, i.e. a 2 vote difference. If I convince my wife to do the same, that's a 4 vote difference. My 18 and 19 year old kids go along with this logic, BELIEVE me, so that's an 8 vote difference. It doesn't take many GOP protest votes to seriously disturb Arnie's math.
As far as the policy effects go, we're screwed either way. There is, in fact, a limit as to how far Red Phil can go, before he shares Gray Davis' fate. The fact is, reelecting Arnie will NOT have the benign impact you expect, it'll be much worse the next four years, than the past two. Neither will electing Red Phil have as serious a negative impact that you believe. As Arnie runs left, he and Phil will merge on the issues. The difference is, we can mount a constructive opposition to a Democrat Governor; we can mount no opposition at all to a sitting GOP Governor.
GOP conservatives need to defeat Arnie to turn the ship around, not walk away from the polls. Arnie's counting on conservatives to disenfranchise themselves, to his benefit.
Like hell, I will!
SFS
Make your vote count. VOTE .. but vote AGAINST Arnie. Double the value of your vote; vote for the #1 or #2 candidate who'd NOT Arnie. If the Libertarian starts polling #2, I'll vote for him. Right now, #1 or #2 is a Democrat, so if the election is held today, he gets my vote.
The next four years of the liberal Govinator will be much, much worse than the past two years. You KNOW that this is true. We can muster NO effective opposition against a sitting GOP governor, and his local California policies will become the defacto national GOP policies. How could it be otherwise. The governors of the largest 4 or 5 states wield a disproportionate influence on national public policy.
At least if the governor is a Democrat, we can mount an effective opposition against him, as happened with Gray Davis. And if you think Arnie's policies after he's received a RE-ELECTION MANDATE will be any "kinder and gentler" than Red Phil's, you're nuts. The GOP has little influence on the Governor and his hand picked, Gray Davis Democrat staff now; it'll have none after he's reelected.
SFS
Should Arnold not win, Tom will never have this shot.
Yes. And yet they continue to hammer on about Arnold's "rotten principles". My, my. Perhaps... they do not comprehend modern-day communications vehicles.
Where did I say anything about voting for Arnold?? Did I not say the opposite?? But voting for a Democrat instead is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. That is truly cutting off your nose to spite your face. No one said vote for Arnold. I won't be. But for god's sakes don't vote for someone from the Party of Satan, the party that initiated the legislation on this private school gag order against anti-homosexuality teaching nonsense. How the hell does that make any sense to validate the candidate of the party that passed that legislation in the Assembly? No Republicans voted for it.
No, all I'm saying is vote write in, vote 3rd party or leave it blank so Arnold can see how badly he underperforms against real conservatives like McClintock. But don't vote Democrat. Sheesh, you're just putting yourself into the enemies camp if you do that. And NO AMOUNT of hysterical and long-winded counter-replies will EVER justify that stupidity in my book. AGAIN, I am not voting for Arnold or saying you should. But DO NOT VOTE FOR THE SATANIC DEMOCRATS EVER FOR ANY REASON! You are guilty of their sins and the evil they legislate if you do that! DO YOU WANT THAT ON YOUR CONSCIENCE??
You sure have that right. The corrupt demonratz will use their executive and legislative dominance to negate anything even slightly conservative through misuse of power, misuse of the law and continued fifth column mischief.
Its not his face he is cutting the nose from, it is ours. He is an ilk, desiring nothing but republican/conservative defeat and demise. By voting third party you will contribute to his cause.
This is honestly the only time I have ever advocated this. I am not one of these absolutists who say Republicans must govern down the conservative line or else, especially in states like California. I understand you have to move left on some things to win in a state like this. But I am really dismayed that Arnold is supporting this global warming nonsense. That's going to ruin the economy of this state and economics is a hot button with me. If he vetos SB160, the bill to grant college financial aid to illegal aliens, then maybe I'll reconsider voting for him. But honestly, even for someone somewhat on the moderate side on certain things like me, this has gotten to be too much for me. And believe me, I am usually the one arguing the side you are arguing on this telling conservatives to just hold the line and vote Republican.
Anyway, if the race significantly tightens and it looks like Idiot Phil could win, I'll probably change my vote. But I have a feeling Arnold is going to walk away with this anyway.
Thank you.
: )
By the way, thank you both for your service to the country and also for being a voice of reason of Free Republic arguing for supporting Republican candidates and against the self-destructive idea of withholding votes from Republicans who aren't perfect party-line pols. FR needs more of that common sense. Too many prefer to pout and foam and either not vote or vote 3rd party, but then are the first ones to gripe when the Dems. take over and ruin things. I know, I know, that's basically what I'm doing in the governor's race, but this is the first time I've EVER done that. And like I said, if the race gets to within 3-4 points in the polls, I'll hold my nose and go Arnold.
I don't know what an "ilk" is, but I've been inside and outside of the party, and at this point, I'm done with it. And no amount of nasty words about me is going to change my mind, or make me feel "bad" for not being "loyal to the party". As Ronald Reagan once said of the Democrats, now applies to the free-loading-GOP-RINO's and their so called "conservative" buddies who keep putting at the party's controls: I didn't leave the GOP; the GOP left me.
I was a "conservative" back when conservatives weren't "cool". I'm still a conservative, but I'm a whole lot more pragmatic now. And I'm probably the only GOP voter who feels this way; everyone else is probably just hunky-dory happy with the way the party's run things since 1994. But curious as this may seem, I've actually been ahead on a lot of issues. I told my wife to expect the 2000 dot.bom collapse and recession, I told her that Clinton would certainly leave us vulerable and at war shortly after he left office; anyhow, I'm so "average" that I find others going where I've gone. Yeah, the party will probably find it's greatest success this November, election wins over the Dems by landslide proportions, yet I doubt this, even though the Dems produce such piss-poor-mealy-mouthed-surrender-monkey type Pols. The GOP is so feckless, they make even the Democrats look like a viable (or harmless!) ulternative to many GOP Americans, who will probably just stay home on election day.
SFS
When did I call you a name?? And I certainly hope you're not calling me a "RINO" if you're voting for a Democrat. I despise the term in any event because I think the GOP is or should be the Big Tent party Ronald Reagan envisoned with room for many views and opinions. That includes the views and opinions of McCain, Guiliani and even Arnold. I don't have to vote for them, but they're welcome. Anyway, please think twice about A) calling me a RINO when you have pledged to vote Democrat and B) voting Democrat.
Allow me to enlighten you, as it was I who addressed you as ilk. In fact the whole 'ilk herd' concept is mine. It bothers the ilk badly, yet has no impact upon non-ilk. The 'ilk herd' is the subset of the fifth columnists who have infiltrated FR with division and dissent as their goal. Ah, I have to back up as not all ilk are truly 'fifth columnists'. Many of them are good, loyal, conservative Americans who are being duped into 'useful idiocy'. Their sense of loyalty is a major reason why they fall for the fifth column propaganda of the ilk herd bulls. These faux-bulls pretend to be extreme conservatives, but the only extremities they exhibit are that of causing controversy within the republican/conservative base and moving the great unwashed masses away from the center and toward the left. The ilk have as their goal the denial of votes contributing toward any republican victory. Almost all of the states represented at FR have fifth columnists, and they're all over the national threads, but the 'ilk herd' represents California. Fifth columnists are principally 'on message, as too much, too often deceit exposed them. They dupe people by their facade. They make all sorts of claims, claims which often which are found questionable. I've seen too many fakes in my time at FR to believe anyone's self-aggrandisment. The only thing I can judge is what people say here, and if they say that voting for the demonratz, or writing in a 'more conservative' name, they join the ilk herd. So, are you trying to argue for Arnie's defeat as a faux-bull or as just a herd member?
You're in the good company of the GOP RINO ruling class.
Har! You have to wonder if the author typed this with a straight face.
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