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Cannabis should be decriminalized for the same reasons that alcohol is
The Prometheus Institute ^ | 8/28/2006 | Editorial

Posted on 08/28/2006 7:29:35 AM PDT by tang0r

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To: frogjerk
I remember someone stating on FR that pot smokers drive better than drivers stone cold sober.
I wouldn't say that...I'd link this and let it stand for itself...

U.S. Department of Transportation National Traffic Safety Administration DOT HS 808 939
Marijuana, Alcohol and Actual Driving Performance
July 1999

S.1 General Conclusions

In a previous series of studies on the effects of THC alone we concluded that THC given in doses up to 300 1lg/kg has "slight" effects on driving performance (Robbe & O'Hanlon, 1993). The results of the present study now compel us to revise that conclusion. The present subjects' performance was more affected than their predecessors'. The present subjects showed impaired car following performance after THC 100 1lg/kg whereas the previous ones were not impaired by doses up to 300 1lg/kg. In the present study, road tracking performance after 200 ~g/kg was worse than the performance after 300 ~g/kg in the previous study. We believe that these differences are attributable to the groups' respective experience with THC smoking and to driving under the influence of THC. The present group was less experienced and probably had not developed the same degree of behavioral tolerance as their predecessors. Yet all of the individuals in both groups admitted to having occasionally driven under the influence of THC before entering the studies. Thus, the new data seem no less representative of how drivers normally operate under the influence of THC. The addition of these data to those previously collected merely broadens the range of reactions that might be expected to occur in real life. That range has not been shown to extend into the area that can rightfully be regarded as dangerous or an obviously unacceptable threat to public safety. Alcohol present in blood concentrations around the legal limit (0.10 g/dl) in most American States is more impairing than anything subjects have shown after THC alone in our studies. As mentioned, medicinal drugs have had worse effects on psychiatric patients' driving performance in other studies employing the same test procedures. If not blatantly dangerous, however, the effects of THC alone in this study were certainly more than slight. They were of sufficient magnitude to warrant concern. Drivers suffering the same degrees of impairment as the present subjects did after THC alone would be less than normally able to avoid collisions if confronted with the sudden need for evasive action. They would probably also be more likely to fall asleep during prolonged vehicle operation. In short, while the effects of THC alone in doses up to 200 1lg/kg might be categorized as "moderate" in the tests, they could easily become "severe" under exceptional circumstances.

Impaired operation of a motor vehicle on the roadways is against the law. It would remain so even if marijuana were legalized.
Impaired operation of a Lazy-Boy...no way!

181 posted on 08/28/2006 11:50:54 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: monkfan

http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mj005.htm


182 posted on 08/28/2006 11:51:49 AM PDT by carenot (Proud member of The Flying Skillet Brigade)
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To: SoothingDave
I think it's absurd to assume that pot, which many people find very pleasant, is comparable to something with very limited appeal, like Michael Moore books, and therefore will not have elasticity of demand. One of the reasons for taxes on booze (other than the obvious govt. greed) is that higher prices lower consumption. Alcoholic beverages are dirt cheap to make, and would cost almost nothing without taxes.

As for bathtub gin, there is in fact still a criminal bootleg alcohol problem. One reason that booze is not manufactured by many small-timers is that it's illegal to do so, except under strict limits.

You have a rather blithe confidence in "regulation" to solve problems. Once there is an enormous "legitimate" profit in something, regulating it becomes very difficult in practice, politicians being the whores they are. As a crime victim, I've seen first hand how ineffective cops are enforcing present laws. I don't want them given the additional burden of trying to control the effects of another "legal" mind-altering drug.

Incidentally, people who think imprisonment for drug offenses, or any other crime, is not effective need to read a recent posting of an article by Thomas Sowell: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1691373/posts

183 posted on 08/28/2006 11:52:59 AM PDT by hellbender
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To: steve-b
Well, not if you get a rep for "bogarting" and nobody will share with you, no....
LOL! You're killing me man!
Ya'll doing OK in Houston?
184 posted on 08/28/2006 11:54:40 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Sir Gawain
I'm all for hearing your strategies on how to win this War on Some Drugs though.

The only way to win is to change human nature. There is no easy solution, and legalization is no solution at all...it's capitulation. The weakest minded among us will always look to chemistry to alter their state of mind. Must we always cater to the lowest and weakest among us?

185 posted on 08/28/2006 12:02:41 PM PDT by Ouderkirk (Don't you think it's interesting how death and destruction seems to happen wherever Muslims gather?)
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To: monkfan; osideplanner; headsonpikes
I was hoping not to have to use irony tags.
You're not alone HOP. osideplanner probably feels the same way.
186 posted on 08/28/2006 12:06:11 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: monkapotamus
"Why hasn't the government banned poison ivy? It is also a plant, causes harm and has fewer benefits than marijuana/hemp."

Here's another reason to ban poison ivy: inhaling the smoke could, and probably would be, be fatal. I kid you not.

187 posted on 08/28/2006 12:08:24 PM PDT by monkfan
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To: Ouderkirk
The only way to win is to change human nature.

Good luck with that.

There is no easy solution, and legalization is no solution at all...it's capitulation.

That's either the answer of a stubborn person or an insane one. The stubborn person refuses to believe that the solution is exactly opposite of what they have been proposing. The insane person keeps repeating the same steps over and over and keeps hoping for a different outcome. We tried prohibition in the 30's. It didn't work then and it isn't working now.

188 posted on 08/28/2006 12:09:15 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: Ouderkirk
The only way to win is to change human nature. There is no easy solution, and legalization is no solution at all...it's capitulation. The weakest minded among us will always look to chemistry to alter their state of mind. Must we always cater to the lowest and weakest among us?

Well, maybe I am being lured in by a lack of irony or sarcasm tags for your post, but it seems to me that you are making common cause with the leftist utopians.

Your words could easily have been uttered by Pol Pot, Robespierre, or any other "idealist" scourge of humanity!

Unlike yourself, I happen to like human nature.

189 posted on 08/28/2006 12:37:14 PM PDT by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism.)
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To: DungeonMaster
Prove that everything would be better if drugs were legal.
You want them illegal. Prove that drug prohibition has made everything better. Drugs were a minor nuisance when they were legal.
Drug prohibition has increased, not decreased, drug abuse.
Drug prohibition has increased, not decreased, drug potency.
Drug prohibition has increased, not decreased, violent crime.
Drug prohibition has increased, not decreased, teen use of drugs.
The only drug prohibition decrease is the price of illegal drugs.

I'd also really like to see proof of the 22.5% of the worlds prisoners thing.

Lol!
You didn't even bother to click on the link. The 22.5% is the official US government statistic! The UN claims the number of US incarcerated is higher than the official US government number of 22.5%.

Legal drugs may just as easily cause many many more and different problems but for anyone to ignore that possibility makes their logic pretty suspect.

Illegal drugs have caused more problems than legal drugs ever did but for anyone to ignore that fact makes their intelligence pretty suspect.
.
190 posted on 08/28/2006 12:46:51 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: tang0r

The distilled spirits lobby will fight legalization of cannabis with everything they have. Also, the government can't make money off something anybody can grow on their own. Any new laws concerning this will have the gov't making more money or it won't happen. Right now LE can take your house, cars and any other property if a dog happens to smell drugs on the money in your pocket. The law is an ass when it comes to this subject.


191 posted on 08/28/2006 12:54:36 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life)
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To: philman_36; osideplanner; headsonpikes

aw heck! Oside took me for a ride. I've been punk'd!!

I stepped right into that one. Good show.


192 posted on 08/28/2006 12:59:23 PM PDT by monkfan
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To: headsonpikes

The point is...your not going to eliminate drugs until you eliminate the demand. To eliminate the demand you have to change the nature of humanity...which is not likely. Pol Pot and the others tried to change human nature...by force. To change the nature of a man he has to do it for himself due to his own desires.

That said...to throw open the flood gates to drugs is no solution.


193 posted on 08/28/2006 1:00:19 PM PDT by Ouderkirk (Don't you think it's interesting how death and destruction seems to happen wherever Muslims gather?)
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To: mugs99
You want them illegal. Prove that drug prohibition has made everything better. Drugs were a minor nuisance when they were legal. Drug prohibition has increased, not decreased, drug abuse. Drug prohibition has increased, not decreased, drug potency. Drug prohibition has increased, not decreased, violent crime. Drug prohibition has increased, not decreased, teen use of drugs. The only drug prohibition decrease is the price of illegal drugs.

They are illegal, the burden of proof is on those that would have them legal.

Lol! You didn't even bother to click on the link. The 22.5% is the official US government statistic! The UN claims the number of US incarcerated is higher than the official US government number of 22.5%.

Yup, it turns out we have 20ish percent of the prisoners in the would. There are many many factors to that. In countries where they just kill you for screwing up they have way fewer people in prison. In countries too poor to have cops they have very few people in prison too. OUr welfare state and it's destruction of the family unit is putting people in prison, not the lack of legality for drugs.


194 posted on 08/28/2006 1:00:46 PM PDT by DungeonMaster (More and more churches are nada scriptura.)
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To: carenot

Thanks for the link. That ought to be required reading.


195 posted on 08/28/2006 1:15:11 PM PDT by monkfan
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To: Ouderkirk

Well, one solution would be to stop seeing the "demand for drugs" as a problem that requires a remedy.

As I said, I like human nature, including its appetite for amusement and fresh experiences.

In my honest opinion, the WOD is a front for the protection of actual 'criminal' profits for the international dealers and their bought-and-paid-for political representaives in this country.

Without the WOD, there would still be a group of indigent abusers, but the costs to society and our political system would be abated.

In a city I am familiar with - Vancouver - there have been many approaches to the needle drug "problem" over the last 50 years, from 10 year penalties for possession, to the present city-sponsored 'needle-exchanges'; yet the number of 'addicts' has remained constant at about 10-12 thousand.

Fifty years.

End the WOD!


196 posted on 08/28/2006 1:23:58 PM PDT by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism.)
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To: monkfan; carenot
Another good link, IMO...The Emperor Wears No Clothes
This is the book that started the hemp revolution. More than 600,000 copies have been sold to date. The print version of The Emperor Wears No Clothes is available in Jack's Hemporium. Jack wants this information to be available to everyone, so he has published the text of the book here on the internet for free. This is only half of what is actually in the book. If you want all the source material and graphics, please buy a copy of the book.
Something else from there...



197 posted on 08/28/2006 2:00:18 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: monkfan; carenot
A potentially billion (yes, that billion with a B) dollar crop in 1938 would be worth ??? what in today's market? A gazillion dollars, to use a child's word.
Decades have been wasted.
198 posted on 08/28/2006 2:13:46 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: DungeonMaster
They are illegal, the burden of proof is on those that would have them legal

The burden of proof is on those who are sqaundering taxpayer money on a failed moral crusade. Can you show any progress to justify the billions spent on this crusade to rid society of temptation?

Yup, it turns out we have 20ish percent of the prisoners in the would. There are many many factors to that

There is only one factor. The Drug War is an un Constitutional religious crusade that is responsible for 80% of the citizens locked away in our dungeons.
Today, the USA keeps more than two million people behind bars -- compared with only 200,000 three decades ago...thanks to the drug war.

The drug war is evil and anyone who supports it is evil.


199 posted on 08/28/2006 2:30:39 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: photodawg
The choice is yours if you can't get the law repealed. Its just a personal vice and not enough people want to fight the battle for legalization.

Do you think the fact that they're going to have to face opposition subsidized by their own tax dollars might have something to do with it?

200 posted on 08/28/2006 2:33:55 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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