Posted on 08/22/2006 2:04:20 PM PDT by js1138
Possibly because an actual scientific breeding program would not involve killing off the brightest, most talented and productive people, and replacing them with dregs.
Just a thought.
None of the posters who have denounced the book have proven that it was a fraud.
This sounds a bit like Dan Rather.
If there is any "revisionist nonsense" on this thread, it is the attempt by so-called conservatives to smuggle in the leftist canard that National Socialism is connected with historic Christianity and Western civilization.
The difference is that the original German is available, has been examined, and does not contain the statements used by Kennedy in his argument.
Let's be clear about this. The English translation containing the statements against Christianity is not from the original German. It is from a French translation that is full of fabrications.
What we have here is the irony of Free Republic supporting fabricated documents.
"FR should also be sensitive to attempts to smuggle leftist ideology, such as the idea that National Socialism derived from, and was even a logical consequence of, historic Christianity and Western culture, into a conservative forum."
(Applause) Thank you.
But Jews were thought to the an inferior race by the pseudo-scienfitic establishment so influential in the U.S. and Europe in the 1920s and 1930s.
As for Darwin:
At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world…. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.” [Just so there is no doubt, the author in particular is claiming that whites will exterminate blacks.]
—Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man, 1871, ch. 6.
An unstated assuumption on this and many other threads on Hitler is the definiton of Christian.
In most settings, if someone claims to be Christian, we believe them. Hitler made such claims.
When a murderer claims to be Christian we tend to say no, he's not, on behavioral grounds. But that person might genuinely believe in his own Christianity. The murder was "justified" for this (irrational) reason or that.
My perspective, having relatives who escaped pogroms (often a Sunday-after-Church activity) is that Hitler was influenced by the Christian anti-semitism pervasive in Europe at the time. Had he been in Japan, he'd have picked on those of Ainu ancestry. He grew up with Christian cultural concepts and baggage and he mentally twisted things so he could feel good and virtuous while acting out his perverted personal demons.
Even if the statements in the book are legitimate and did represent actual utterances of Hitler, they can well be ignored if you wish. There are numerous other statements of Hitler and his associates, as well as the actions of the Third Reich government, that clearly show the opposition of National Socialism to Biblical teachings and the Christian religion. These statements were well known during World War II and were used in Allied propaganda against the National Socialists of Germany.
I was merely pointing out that the German Jews were the brightest, most talented and productive members of their society. They were the object of jealosy long before they were labeled inferior.
You nailed it when you called Nazi science pseudoscience.
Science cannot be responsible for the statements of Uri Gellers, UFO nuts, medical quacks and ESP hoaxers, any more than religion accepts responsibility for Jim Jones.
But the topic of this thread is the misuse of fraudulent documents. Do you support the use of fake documents?
The "smoking gun" is the original German document. It is readily accessible to anyone fluent in that language.
A more idiotic statement could not be made. Worthy of "Fake but accurate."
It's not a matter of which language, but whether the statements were fabricated. The original is German. The original is readily available.
Are you really willing to Dan Rather FreeRepublic?
http://www-camlaw.rutgers.edu/publications/law-religion/nuremberg/nurinst1.htm
http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/deadlymedicine/narrative/index.php?content=science
http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/deadlymedicine/profiles/
you underestimate the German scientific community support!
>your attempt to link evangelical and fundamentalist Christians with Muslim extremists on the basis of creationism...
... exists only in your imagination.
The difference is that the original German is available, has been examined, and does not contain the statements used by Kennedy in his argument.
Let's be clear about this. The English translation containing the statements against Christianity is not from the original German. It is from a French translation that is full of fabrications.
What we have here is the irony of Free Republic supporting fabricated documents.
Sort of like the claim that while the Rather's documents may not be authentic they authentically 'expressed' what the writer (forger) 'thought' the alleged author's thought. :)
Let's be clear about this. The English translation containing the statements against Christianity is not from the original German. It is from a French translation that is full of fabrications.
The only sources saying it is a fabrication are neoNazis (such as Stormfront) and atheists (such as nobelief.com)_
There doesn't seem to be any credible debunking of the book.
Mod: if you want to kill the link to Stormfront feel free. Heck, if you want to kill the link to nobeliefs feel free. They aren't much better.
Nazism was based on Paganism, not Christianity.
"But Jews were thought to the an inferior race by the pseudo-scienfitic establishment so influential in the U.S. and Europe in the 1920s and 1930s."
The pejorative "pseudo" was not appended to this particular "science" until well into the twentieth century. In fact, eugenics didn't really become discredited in the scientific community until Nazi atrocities came to light. As convenient as it may well be, now, to denounce social Darwinism, scientific racism and eugenics as "pseudo-science," the fact remains that such was widely accepted and put into practice, not just in the German extreme, but also across Europe and in the United States. We're looking at a case of convenient memory here, clearly. There are remnants of this sort of thinking still spreading death in our society today, with widespread acceptance and even adulation. I'm speaking of Planned Parenthood, a name that was adopted after their original moniker became embarrassingly associated with ... Nazis.
Thanks, wideawake. I'm glad my work is appreciated by someone. BTW, if these atheists succeed in getting me banned, please continue to fight the good fight.
Isn't it interesting that while Abe Foxman (professional anti-Semitic stereotype) blasts the idea that Darwin inevitably leads to Nazism, that he apparently has nothing to say when atheists insist that belief in HaShem or in Berei'shit Bara' does? And isn't it interesting that Foxman supports "gay marriage" because "Jewish tradition insists we are all created in the image of G-d?" How can he say such a thing if belief in creation by G-d inevitably leads to Nazism?
Do you think the "educated" proponents of meaninglessness on FR have the brain cells to learn Biblical Hebrew? It would be interesting if they did and discovered the origin of all the "chr*stian" stuff they hate so much. And, no offense intended to you, but I notice that a great many "philo-Semitic" anti-chr*stian atheists condemn the "old testament" and then endorse the Sermon on the Mount. How "educated" can such people be?
As they are in this country, but well-educated, credential people using the name of science to advance social goals caused much, much harm and Darwin's claim that man was bascially just an evolved animal was perhaps the most important intellectual hammer they used to institute their various twisted programs.
Which is what this thread is about.
God always has to trump science on moral matters.
> But Jews were thought to the an inferior race by the pseudo-scienfitic establishment
More specifically... the Jews were thought to be a *separate* *creation.* The Aryans were made whole and perfect by God way back in the day (on Atlantis, IIRC), and the Jews and other races were made somewhere else, not evolved.
Claiming that God pulled humanity out of his anterior orifice already formed as human is quite the antithesis of Darwinian evolution.
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